Connecting Audiences to Ocean Conservation: Andrew Lewin’s Science Communication Mission

Andrew Lewin - Audio

Howard: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. This is Howard Fox, and welcome back for another episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series, the podcast that celebrates individuals and families, businesses, and organizations that seek out and promote the exploration, stewardship, conservation, access, and enjoyment of the outdoors.

Howard: Andrew Lewin is our guest today. Andrew is a marine biologist. And the host of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Andrew, it's a pleasure to meet you. Welcome.

Andrew Lewin: Thank you so much, Howard. It's so great to be on the show.

Howard: Fantastic. And, and I'm, I'm a little bit nervous now. I'm, I'm on the show with another podcaster and I'm, I, and it's, there's a, there's a, this thing in the coaching professor called Limiting Beliefs, but it's like, I, I'll get through that,

Andrew Lewin: You're, you, you are amazing already. I've, I've listened to a few of your episodes beforehand. It sounds great. [00:01:00] We podcasters, they have to support each other, right?

Howard: Ye Yes, we do. Yes, we do. And I, I, and I think for both of us, we should give a shout out to the great folks at, uh, pod Match, which is a, a, a source for many of our guests, or to be a guest, uh, on a pod, uh, podcast. And we'll provide links back, uh, in our show notes because you and I both benefit from, uh, meeting some great people.

Howard: So, So first off, you got a great voice by the way. Did you like bump up the base

Andrew Lewin: I did nothing. This is, it's weird people have said that before. It's like before I start, I sound something and then when the, well, as soon as you hit record, my voice hits. It's like a natural tendency. I don't know what it is. I have no idea.

Howard: All right. Very cool. Well listen, before we get into the podcasting and how to protect the ocean, uh, this passion of yours, I'd love if you could share with our audience a little bit about your background. the fact marine biologist, that's, that's nothing to, uh, snicker at. That's a hu that, that's, in this day and age, that's a huge [00:02:00] responsibility.

Andrew Lewin: Well, I appreciate it. Yeah. it is, and it's, it's kind of funny because, I, I'm, I'm a, I call myself a marine biologist, um, and some people are like, well, you're a marine biologist, but you actually don't work in marine biology per se, and marine biology is such a diverse field. you can go into the science of it all.

Andrew Lewin: Like marine biology is technically, the study of biological, entities and organisms within the marine realm, within the ocean. I study those in a different way. Now. I communicate those and, and, and we can discuss how I got there, there, uh, in a minute. But when, when I. First start, like when I was a young boy, watching Jacques Kau documentaries on tv, growing up in Toronto, Ontario, surrounded by the Great Lakes, but not by the ocean.

Andrew Lewin: So never had that salt taste until I was about nine or 10 when we went to Florida for, for a vacation with the family. But, I, I always loved that. That the, just being submerged in the water and looking at the animals and how they're behaving and how they're interacting with like a coral reef or a seagrass bed or a mangrove forest or [00:03:00] whatever that might be.

Andrew Lewin: Whatever I was watching, and it might be a marine mammal. It might be a shark. All those things just got me going and it was, it wasn't one particular animal. By any means, although, I think when you grow up you just think you're gonna be working with dolphins and whales and sharks and all that kind of stuff, as everybody does.

Andrew Lewin: But it was always a, a, a dream of mine since I was 14. It was like once I figured out that, oh, I can actually do this as a, as a living, okay. So this is what I'm gonna do. And from then on, I was a pain in the butt to my teachers, my biology teachers. 'cause they kept wanting to teach me human biology. And I kept wanting to know animal biology.

Andrew Lewin: So it's like, okay, do a project on humans in this sort of way. I'm like, yeah, can I do that? But for dolphins, like, can I just switch it up a little bit? And they're like, all right Andrew. Yeah. Like, no problem. You could do that. Like we could figure that out. So it was, it was always like that fascination to study the ocean, to know more about the ocean.

Andrew Lewin: And so I went to university, got my degree, my undergraduate degree. I ended up working, um, in, like, I, I go back and forth between freshwater just because of where I live, right? In [00:04:00] Toronto it's difficult to move to a place and then work. But I did get the opportunity in 2022 to go to the Gulf of Mexico in Louisiana.

Andrew Lewin: I was stationed outta Louisiana out of, uh, lumcon, the Louisiana University's Marine Consortium, a great, um, I would say medium, smallest to medium institute down in southern Louisiana. And we would take a boat. The RV Pelican and we would go out, I was the marine technician on the boat, and we would go out for, weeks in the Gulf of Mexico and I would live in the, like, on the ocean, on a boat doing what I was meant to do.

Andrew Lewin: I was like, this is life. Like this is amazing. and so I was, I, we were doing, CTD casts, which was like measuring water quality. And temperature and salinity and depth, um, from, various depths. Like I think the furthest depth that went down was 3000 feet, which is like crazy. It took us an hour and a half to go down and up.

Andrew Lewin: And so that was kind of fun and, and you get to see all like, countless sunsets, on the, on the water and stuff. I did that for like eight months and I realized it's a very lonely thing to do, to be out on the ocean. And, I [00:05:00] had a girlfriend at the time who's now my wife, and so, you start to realize like how this.

Andrew Lewin: Field really, uh, affects your life. like when you're a marine biologist, um. You're a marine biologist for life. Like there's no off, for a lot of us, there's no off switch. You go home and you're still talking about animals, you're still talking about work. You might be thinking about work, and that happens with a lot of, professions and stuff like that.

Andrew Lewin: But with, with this, it's like you're almost always on and you can get burnt out really quickly. There's a lot of people in our profession that do get burnt out because they're just always on. It's not a, it's, it's not a very well paying job in, in certain, uh, situations. You get the benefit of having these wonderful experiences, like to live on an ocean, and on this, on this wonderful research vessel to have access to all these instruments and you're in you, the job that I had, we'd bring on researchers and we would, so you're in, you're, you're interacting with the various researchers.

Andrew Lewin: All over the world. one of the, one of the greatest things that I was able to do on that ship [00:06:00] was we had, uh, we picked up, uh, naval, uh, it was like reservist seal teams. So like, they were, they were seals, but they were like the reservist of the seals, which I didn't even know they had. These guys were huge and like built like bricks and you're just like, how are you doing?

Andrew Lewin: And they'd go out on the water and they would measure, like, they were looking at, How clear the water is, because they're looking for sea mines and, and all that kind of stuff from World War ii and they're doing all these exercises and stuff. Really cool things. So a lot of interest in that.

Andrew Lewin: But again, like the pay is okay, you're living in a remote town, there's like one road in this town where I was living, Cory, Louisiana. So it's, it's a very unique kind of stuff. Not all jobs in marine biology are that. isolated, but, and this one was, so I ended up moving back. I did my master's degree.

Andrew Lewin: I realized like, this is what I wanted to do. Did my master's degree in marine protected areas. I was like, oh, this is something that I feel like I could really do. Never, like, after I did my master's, I got like my GIS. geographic information. So digital mapping, which is a huge thing. At the time it was [00:07:00] really catching on.

Andrew Lewin: Now, now it seems like everybody has to have that to be able to do any kind of research or any type of monitoring. and then from then on, I just had like these different jobs I was staying, we decided, my wife and I decided to. Stay in Ontario to raise our family. 'cause it was close to other families.

Andrew Lewin: And so it was a little bit, it's, it's a, a bigger challenge to find a job in, in marine biology. I was able to find it in private consulting, environmental consulting, which was great. Sometimes nonprofit organizations. And then I found a government job with, with the federal government here in Canada, in, uh, department of Fisheries and Oceans and working in the Great Lakes.

Andrew Lewin: So back to the Great Lakes, back to freshwater, uh, which was great. had an opportunity to do something. When I was, when I, sorry. When I, when I was doing the private consulting and I was, and uh, just before I went to, to Fisheries and Oceans, I decided that, um, it, it was something that was very different.

Andrew Lewin: I, I started to talk to people about the ocean and, this is around BP Oil spill. And, and and or in the Gulf of Mexico, which was still like, I always have, some emotions tied to the Gulf of Mexico 'cause it kind of [00:08:00] capitalized my career. And, I know that before the interview I'm kind of getting ahead of myself.

Andrew Lewin: You talk about the aha moment. I remember talking to people about that and they're like, yeah, like Angie, like is this climate change like a big deal? like, are should we be worried? this is a family and friends are asking me this. And I was like, how do you not know? Like, how do you not know It's a big deal?

Andrew Lewin: Like how do you not know plastic pollution is a big deal, or overfishing is a big deal? And I, and I, I quickly realized that there weren't as many. Readily available resources. Even though the internet, and social media had started to take off, there wasn't as many, uh, readily available resources for people to gain access to.

Andrew Lewin: And that's when I just launched my communication, science communication career on my own. And that's how it's been ever since.

Howard: I love that. And, and I love the, the trajectory, which by the way, we've covered about four out of the seven questions that I had, that I had for you. But you know, it's

Andrew Lewin: We'll figure something else out.

Howard: Uh, yeah. I mean, as a good podcast host, I know when to let my guests go. and by the way, I do, I have to share [00:09:00] this.

Howard: I originally, I, I went on, on online and I went to my Canva, which is where I get a lot of my imagery for my

Andrew Lewin: Yep, for sure.

Howard: And I got a, a, a photo of the ocean. Because it was nice and I was thinking about it 'cause I was looking some more of your background and I thought that is a boring picture. And I remembered I was up in Alaska and I had a chance to just kind of explore, walk around the tide pools, which, you give me a chair and a camera and I'm a happy.

Howard: Just, and I thought, well, that's, that's a much better picture showing tide pools. But I, I, I, I, I love the fact though, from conservation, whether it's ocean conservation, great Lakes conservation, uh, fresh water, the, the, the, the, the rivers, there's so. Facets of conservation and water conservation.

Howard: That, that you can literally go anywhere and do anything if you're creative enough and you're open [00:10:00] to moving around. And, uh, when I did my, my series with the National Marine Sanctuaries, and I know you, uh, you're connected on LinkedIn to it, to John Armor, uh, that to me was just fascinating to meet all these people that were passionate about.

Howard: Some aspect education. The, the, the, the, the protection of, of the animal, the, uh, just, turn, cleaning, the cleaning of the water so that animal species could, could thrive or even to help. Know, the national, the, the Marine, Marine Sanctuary, something like Mallows Bay and, uh, there, I forget the other one.

Andrew Lewin: Shipwreck, national Marine Sanctuary up in, uh, on, on our Great Lakes. And it's, there's so many facets to go by, but I do get that, raised, wife raising kids you are in Canada, which is not a bad place to be right now. That's true. That is

Howard: But, but I, I love the [00:11:00] fact though you are still doing work that you're passionate about, but you found a way to make a connection back into sharing your passion, but also talking to other people who are, who are as passionate, uh, as you are.

Andrew Lewin: Well, and, and just to, just to kinda add to that, it took me a while before I realized this is what I was really good at. I did research, I did consulting, I did government work, I did nonprofit work, and there was always something that. Didn't really fit in, like, or, or I didn't feel like I fit in.

Andrew Lewin: I didn't think I could do the best. I was, one of my jobs at, at, at Fisheries and Oceans Canada was a database management, like a geographic database management person. It wasn't as exciting as I wanted it to be, and, and so I, it was never there. But throughout that process, I only realized this like probably about five, six years ago, was every time like I'm on a boat or I'm in the field, I got to do some field work in, in with DFO too.

Andrew Lewin: The, the stories that people would [00:12:00] say, or if I'm at a conference and they, he, the projects I'm, I'm hearing people talk about and I'm like, man, people would love to hear this kind of stuff. my family, my friends, people who always ask me questions about like, what should we look out for?

Andrew Lewin: Like what, like it, everything's so dismal. Like every time I talk about the oceans or I hear something about the oceans, it's, it's always bad news. These are the projects that I want people to get and the people that I'm talking to, I want to introduce them to the people that always ask me questions.

Andrew Lewin: Right? Like John Armor, like he would be a fantastic person to introduce to an audience where you're just like, this is, this is what the Marine Sanctuaries program does. Like this is such an important aspect in the United States. And so that's, it didn't, once I kind of fell into that and I started to like get momentum in that, I quickly realized, I'm like, I was built for this and I, and I didn't.

Andrew Lewin: Fully realize it until I went back to University of Guelph where I did my undergraduate and I, they asked me to do like a talk. I did actually, a friend of mine asked me to do a [00:13:00] talk for a career and I was, I was pretty much into podcasting at the time and afterwards I was talking to an old, like a professor that I had when I was an undergraduate.

Andrew Lewin: So this is like, 15 years later I'm talking to him and I was telling him, how much I liked one of his courses and stuff like that. And he was like, so how did you get so good at. Interviewing people. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he is like, well, I listened to your podcast, and you're like, you just know what to ask.

Andrew Lewin: And you're very in intuitive and you're, you're, you look like you care. You sound like you care. I'm like, well, I do. That's that, that's, that's the magic is I actually, I'm interested in this stuff, And he was like, I just don't know how you, like, did you have to like, build the skill? I'm like, to be honest, no.

Andrew Lewin: Like, I don't know. I was, I was, I was surprised. And, and, but you don't realize what other people think you're good at. You just think that's just what we do. That's how I conduct myself on a, on a podcast. And that's what he was saying. And so I was like, oh, this is really cool. So I, I, I kind of fell into it.

Andrew Lewin: Under my own sort of motivation to do stuff, [00:14:00] but it, it works like, and I, I, as soon as I started publishing. I started interviewing more and more. I was like, no, I'm, I'm increasing this. I went out and I bought like a proper mic. I spent like 500 bucks and then I started to do, like, I went from one episode a week to five episodes a week.

Andrew Lewin: Like I just went bonkers. Five, five episodes at 45 minute. 45 minutes each, and I've played around with the frequency. I went back to three and then I went, then I went to seven days a week. I was like, I decided I'm gonna take this full time. I'm gonna go seven days a week and I'm gonna see what happens.

Andrew Lewin: And, opportunities showed up. It wasn't full, it wasn't fully successful, but it really got me out there and people really started listening and really enjoyed it.

Howard: Okay. I, I, you said something a, a, a minute ago about the interviewing and, and hearing people's stories and, and you asked me also at, before we actually hit the record button, what's this about? What, what do you wanna cover? Do you have an agenda? That's is actually what it [00:15:00] is. I mean, as a coach.

Howard: As a recovery and IT business consultant. I was used to asking questions. I was a business analyst. I would talk about process. Then I realized I can't do this for the rest of my life. I'm gonna die alone in a hotel room. and I discovered coaching and I love the conversation. I love helping people navigate.

Howard: Where they are, where they want and help them get to where they want to be. And that involve, that's all coaching. It's all listening. And I think that's the best part about, for me, the podcasting, is I get to talk to people about what they're passionate about.

Andrew Lewin: Yes.

Howard: that's, those stories are really the, the, the thread throughout most of my episodes.

Howard: I mean, every once in a while there's something a little more targeted, but I love just hearing about people and why they do what they do. And we are, forget whatever is going on in this world. People are naturally [00:16:00] nice and they want to do the right thing. They want to help others. And I think the podcast Mo, uh, medium helps people share their stories and it helps open up others to want to learn more about what other folks are doing.

Howard: So when you're talking to all of your. your guest and what they do that's creating opportunities not only for them, but for the people who are also listening on the podcast. And so we get to be the, help facilitate that in a way. So, I, so when did you, did you start the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

Andrew Lewin: So I started recording in 2015. But I actually launched in 20, uh, sorry, in 2014 and I launched in 2015. So it's been 10 years as of June, uh, that I've been, that I've been doing this podcast. it took me a year to launch 'cause I was scared because at the time, uh, communication, like scientists didn't communic.

Andrew Lewin: To the general [00:17:00] public like this. there was a lot of hesitation on my part 'cause I was afraid of being criticized by my colleagues, by, old supervisors and things like that. and, and also I was worried ab like I had imposter syndrome. we talked a little bit about it. today when you're interviewing another podcaster, well, when I'm interviewing another scientist, I'm like, am I gonna like know enough?

Andrew Lewin: For this scientist to tell me something or this conservationist to tell me something and am I gonna feel like people agree with me? Or like, am I on the right track? Is this what people want? Like, there's always those questions that, that go on. So I, it, it took me a while to, to launch and plus at the time I felt.

Andrew Lewin: It's not as easy to start a podcast as it is today. where it's more understand, and it may just be 'cause I'm more into, I, I love talking about podcasting as a podcaster. you listen to podcasts on podcasting, you're always trying to grow. You're always trying to get better. And so I really got into the medium.

Andrew Lewin: So now knowing it more, maybe it's easier to do. I feel like it's easier, but I think it's also easier to do once you understand the concepts and, and the pillars. Uh, but. At the time we [00:18:00] didn't really talk about science, so I was worried, but then I, once I launched, uh, I didn't get a, when you launch, you don't get a, you don't have a huge audience.

Andrew Lewin: So I didn't have a huge audience, but it started to slowly kind of grow and grow. It was a, it is a huge, like a very, very slow like, hill shallow kind of, ramp up and, and it was great. I fell in love with doing it. As I mentioned, right, going five days a week, I had someone help me out to write all the show notes and stuff like that.

Andrew Lewin: I had like a volunteer and then we actually started to do like a, an Ocean Talk Friday where he would bring on like episodes and he would get experience doing, uh, doing that kinda stuff. So, so Nathan Johnson was on the podcast with me a while. He now worked with Oceania kind of cattle. It kind of. Got him to the help, get him to the next level.

Andrew Lewin: He's an amazing guy. and so like, it, it just, it just built and built and built. And so I just, I just loved it. Yeah. It's, it's been an amazing journey.

Howard: now are you still doing five a week?

Andrew Lewin: No, no, no, no, no. I do three. So it, what's, what's interesting is at one [00:19:00] point, I was doing five a week for a while. like I still had a full-time job. I was working for DFO at the time, uh, and it was fun to do. I, I went back to three times a week 'cause it was just a little too much. And then I, but they were still 45 minutes each, so I'd cover almost like three stories within one episode.

Andrew Lewin: And I started, that's when Apple Podcast released its podcast, connect, uh, service I guess you would call it, where you can actually look at the retention of how many people, uh, how far people would look into, uh, an episode or stay on the episode. And I kept looking. It was like. 20 to 30 minutes. I was like, okay, so if they're staying 20, 30 minutes, that means there's a good chance that that last show or that last story is not being listened to every time.

Andrew Lewin: Not to say that it's because of the story, and I even tried to like, promote it a little bit more at the beginning, but they just weren't la and it could have just been the commute that people were, they were listening on a commute or a dog walk or how it is, like dinner it. So [00:20:00] it could have been a, a number of different things, but it, it kept showing up like, 50% or like, 60%.

Andrew Lewin: Listen, I was like, okay. What if I decided to do the same amount of show, like same amount of covers, cover the same amount of stories, but I just put it like more. like, so if I do like a 15 to 20 minute episode on one story, and then I'll do it in episode, instead of doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I would do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday.

Andrew Lewin: And then I was like, well, I've got enough to do nine episodes in a week. Why don't I just do seven days a week and it'll be actually recording less? and so I, I did that, and I did that for, for quite some time. I probably did that for about a year. and it was great. I enjoyed it. The, the, I think that people are like, oh, why do you do it so much?

Andrew Lewin: You can probably get away with just doing once a week. And, uh, is there so many stories to cover? There's so much content that I feel like when I see a story, even doing, I do three times a week now, even doing three times a week, I feel like I'm like, I could do more.

Howard: Okay.

Andrew Lewin: I just get burnt [00:21:00] out easily. Now I'm older now, it's been 10 years.

Andrew Lewin: I'm,

Howard: yeah. I,

Andrew Lewin: right around November, that's when I start to feel the, the burnout. Like, okay, I've gotta get through this. 'cause I typically, If I'm working on a project, like I do a lot of series, I need to get those episodes out, but I also occasionally will do, I usually post on Tuesdays and then again on Thursday, so if I, I try not to do more than two a week every once in a while.

Andrew Lewin: Get in there, but I mean, you've gotta take care of yourself. I mean, you've got the, the, you got the family. I saw the family photo somewhere. Two kids. Yeah.

Andrew Lewin: you gotta, so you, dad's, you can't say dad's got work to do. Sorry, kids. for sure.

Howard: but you know, the, the people that you have on this podcast, and I, I love the fact you've got a, a, a huge variety of guests and is there a.

Howard: It. It are. What kinds of themes are you hoping to [00:22:00] have come across when you're doing these many episodes? Is there a common thread or are they just different facets of this big topic of ocean conservation and ocean protection? Wild. The wildlife protection.

Andrew Lewin: That's a great question. I, I don't know if I've ever actually thought about it in, in, in like detail to give you like a really good answer on that, but a lot of the times it goes to what interests me. What I think my audience would benefit in knowing. So there are certain times where I will go on like a, a specific topic, and because I have so many episodes, I might do like a bit of a series, where it's like three episodes in a row or like I'll cover a couple of times in a month or something like that.

Andrew Lewin: That I think is, is that people need to know, From a, an interview perspective, it really depends. If there's a story that just came out or a new research paper that just came out, and I want that person to be on it, either the first author or an author or somebody that I [00:23:00] know, I'm like, Hey, do you want to come on and talk about this?

Andrew Lewin: I think this would be a really great story for my audience. They'd really like to know it. If it's, I do. 'cause I, I do a mix of solo episodes and interview episodes and so as I've grown or as I've continued on, the longer you continue on, the more people reach out to you. I'm sure you still get, people reach out to you from emails and some are like complete misses, and some of them are like dead on.

Andrew Lewin: You're like, Ooh, this would be really cool, but I never thought about this before. And so, When I get those, I'll be like, yeah, let's, let's have you on. And because I do so many episodes, I feel like I can get away with hitting all these different types of topics because I'm like, why not? If you don't wanna listen to that episode, there's one coming out in two days so you don't have to worry about it or in, within a couple of days.

Andrew Lewin: So you can go on. Or, there's so many, like, I've done 1800 episodes, Howard, like on this, on this podcast,

Howard: Oh wow.

Andrew Lewin: in 10, in about 10 years. Right. and so. There's so many episodes that you can look at Now, some of them might be out of [00:24:00] date. because it's, like, eight years ago or something like that, if it's a specific topic.

Andrew Lewin: But, some are relevant, like some, I still, people go back like, I did an episode, um, with Dr. Naomi Rose, who's an, uh, an orca biologist and, and works for like one of the leading, uh, us. animal rights and welfare, uh, groups. And she works a lot with captivity and the science of the captivity of, of orcas.

Andrew Lewin: So when Blackfish came out, I had her on, that was still, to this day is probably one of my most popular episodes, and I did that back in 20 15, 20 16. like it's, it's. So there, and then we talked about the science behind it because a lot of people were questioning the science behind it.

Andrew Lewin: And she was one of the advisors, she kind of took part in that and she was like, no, like this is what we found and this is how we found it. So we went into more detail that the movie, that the documentary, which was hugely successful in, in what it wanted to accomplish, um, couldn't go into in a, in an hour and a half or however long it was.

Andrew Lewin: And so that was, that was really great. So, yeah, I think it's the, the subject matter is, comes down to like. Is this something that I'm [00:25:00] interested in? And is this something that my audience would like? Because if I'm interested in it, I can be very enthusiastic about it and then I can make it matter to my audience.

Andrew Lewin: And at the beginning, like the intros, I'll be like, this is why this matters. This is why I want you to, this is why I'm having this person on, or this is why I'm talking about this specific, this specific subject matter.

Howard: Okay. I've had a, a, a number of guests that have been on multiple episodes. Usually it, they've written a new book and as like, and I'm a member of the Outdoor Writers Association of America, so I always wanna support, which by the way, you should consider joining. It's your podcaster. And,

Andrew Lewin: Yeah.

Howard: and conservation is one element of what many of the, my peers in the organization,

Howard: are working on, in, in some shape or fashion. But is there a, a guest that it's like you can always count on them. They're, to, to come on and they're, they're great for, just engagement, good stories and you, your audience is gonna be learning something new.

Andrew Lewin: Yeah, I mean, there's a few that I can think [00:26:00] of that I've had on multiple times. Dr. Naomi Rose, I haven't had her on for a while, but she's always comes and brings the, the, the juicy stuff of science, and, uh, because she deals a lot with animal welfare, um, this is stuff that people need to know. And it's always interesting because, whales.

Andrew Lewin: You put whale in the title and it's always gonna hit, or you put orca in the title, it's always gonna hit. but she's also a very knowledgeable and, and engaging speaker, so it's, it's really nice to have, uh, there are two that I, that come, uh, come to mind that I, that I regularly depend on. That's, uh, an Dr.

Andrew Lewin: Andrew Thaler, who is a deep sea ecologist, but has, has done a lot of work. His PhD was done, uh, around like deep sea mining, and he's taken, he's taken part in a lot of deep sea mining activities. He used to be the editor of a deep sea mining like industry magazine. he's been a spokesperson on, kind of on both sides and, and he provides a really good.

Andrew Lewin: Almost non-biased [00:27:00] approach to deep sea mining. like the, just to go briefly into it, the, the, the people who want a deep sea mine are trying to protect the planet, is the, is how we present it, right? They're not necessarily trying to destroy the deep sea, but they realize that there's a, a bigger, uh, knowledge of we need to reduce the effects of climate change and, and climate change itself.

Andrew Lewin: So by doing, by taking these nodules out. We are, and, and making these batteries for EVs, we are protecting,the planet also taking away the dependency of these, uh, mines in Africa who are, are like, who are going against a lot of human rights issues and, and things like that, uh, that are, that are hurting people.

Andrew Lewin: So. There's that aspect of it, but then there's also like, what are we doing to the Deep Sea? We have no idea. but then he presents it as this is an opportunity for us to get ahead of the game and put in proper regulations to make sure that Deep Sea Mining's done properly, and, and taking a conservative approach.

Andrew Lewin: Will that actually happen? That's, that's the case. That that's what we know. But he presents it from a, [00:28:00] a great aspect. So I've had him on a number of times to discuss that. But he's also this tech guy, he's created his own, Like CTD, like instrumentation, oceanographic instrumentation to make it.

Andrew Lewin: easier to buy and more affordable for people who want to know more about their ocean. So, small island states who may not be able to afford the a hundred thousand dollars instrument, but can do it with an instrument that's only a thousand dollars or $700, he's worked with a lot of open ROV.

Andrew Lewin: he's working with a company called Open, ROV, where at one point James Cameron, the director, bought like a thousand of those open RVs for that company to give away to a lot of these, small end states or, or communities that couldn't afford it on a regular basis. So he would do workshops and teach how to take it apart and put it together so they know how to maintain these instruments.

Andrew Lewin: So he comes on, every once in a while and, he just put in a, a tide gauge in his own little town and made it a community project. 'cause he's also on. Uh uh, he's a committee chair for climate change of his town in St. Michael's, [00:29:00] Maryland. he does a little bit of everything, so he's got so many things that go on.

Andrew Lewin: He's taught, Dungeons and Dragons to kids about forest ecology and how that can be a tool for conservation. So. Just in and of itself with him on, I could talk about so many things and sometimes he'll just reach out. He is like, Hey, I did this. You wanna talk about it on the podcast? I'm like, yep, let's let you know the book a time in my calendar and we'll do it right.

Andrew Lewin: So I can always depend on him. The other is Angelo Villagomez, uh, who is, uh, from the Marianna Islands, uh, and he works in DC in conservation for the Center of American Progress. Used to work for Pew Charitable Trust. One of my good, good friends, uh, we've gotten to be good friends just by doing these interviews and talking over online and, um, and he's always brings great stuff.

Andrew Lewin: he used to work in shark conservation. He used to travel around to a lot of the, the different Pacific Islands as someone to work with. Other Pacific Islanders to,listen to their local communities, what they want, and, and provide that type of, of workshop. And he is just great with people, great [00:30:00] speaker.

Andrew Lewin: So he's brought not only information to him as a guest, but he is also brought other people that I should interview. just as you mentioned, just kind of before I got somebody you have, you just have on your podcast, he's the same thing. Like, I'll go to him and I'll be like, Hey, I saw this article that you shared.

Andrew Lewin: Love to have you on to discuss it. He's like, no, no. I'm not the person you want. Here's the person you want. I'll, I'll contact her or him, and then we will, or they, and then we will, we'll have you on the, we will have them on the podcast. And almost like his, their trust in him puts trust in me.

Howard: Sure.

Andrew Lewin: And so I get, I get guests from that, uh, area as well, and like, not just like individual guests, like guests from like the Blue Nature Alliance, which is like Conservation International and pew Charitable Trust and all these huge organizations.

Andrew Lewin: So it's brought me a lot of credibility within the space.

Howard: Oh, I love it. And, and, and one thing, it's, it's really evident, even though I have, conservation in the intro or stewardship, exploration, I have literally not even scratched the surface. 'cause you're mentioning these organizations like, huh, that's [00:31:00] interesting.

Andrew Lewin: So many.

Howard: while, and, and, and I think in some ways that gives me hope that we truly care enough about our oceans and conservation.

Howard: No matter where we're at that things are going to turn out well. So I, I mean, I, I, I think in this day and age here, at least here in the us, have to have some hope.

Andrew Lewin: Absolutely. Optimism is a huge thing. It's, it's, it's an important part to have in conservation. Working in conservation is not easy. There's a lot of battles that we lose and, uh, especially, looking at the states right now with a lot of the environmental regulations being repealed and the EPA being, pretty much dismantled at every, every so level, Noah and the, the weather, the National Weather Service and so forth in getting their budgets cut.

Andrew Lewin: It's, it's a hard time. And, and, and this is not like, I mean, those is a hard time in this respect. There's a lot of hard times that a lot of these conservationists and scientists go through because they, you could have the best [00:32:00] science and present the best material like a, a negative trend in the ocean.

Andrew Lewin: Then nothing gets done about it. and that's a, that's a difficult part. And, and to be honest, the role that I play, like if you look at the, just sort of the, I always talk about this is in terms of the conservation, um, machine, right? You have the scientists who identifies the problem. They're out there on the front lines and they identify a problem, a, a trend using scientific, the scientific process, which is an important part.

Andrew Lewin: So they come in and they say, here's the, we have a problem, or We don't have a problem, but we have a problem in a monitoring pro program or something like that. And that scientist could be part of government. It could be part of an NGO, it could be an individual, it could be an academic, it could be a private consultant.

Andrew Lewin: They identify the problems. Then that problem gets picked up by. A nonprofit organization, like an environmental organization, like non-governmental organization or sometimes government organization, and they realize that there's a problem here. So they have to make a decision of how best to present it to the decision makers or to the, the policy makers to say, Hey, we [00:33:00] need to amend this.

Andrew Lewin: This policy or change it or create a policy. 'cause it's something new that's come up and we need to do something about it. But you're, you're not gonna get the buy-in unless you have the people that are supporting that. And that could be individuals like you and I who may not have a normal say or may not know about this problem.

Andrew Lewin: So that's where the, the nonprofit organizations really play. And the advocates. And the activists really play a, a big role. The podcasters, the marketers and stuff like that. They actually present it to the individual, their constituents, their audience and say, Hey, there's this problem here that's happening, or the government's changing this policy 'cause they wanna develop on this land that's gonna affect a lot of things, including the ocean or including the lakes.

Andrew Lewin: But you don't know about it. They're gonna get away with it. But we, if we speak up, and this is, if we follow this process, they have to listen to us. And so that's where the communication happens. But where I step in is the communication part. Because a lot of people don't have the access to this information, and [00:34:00] not necessarily from a barrier perspective, although that happens often, but they're just not aware of it because there's so much competition for information.

Andrew Lewin: I mean, the podcast industry, everybody's downloads are down these days 'cause there's so many other, podcasters that are coming in, in, in different podcasts. Everybody has a podcast. But although not enough people have a podcast in, in certain ways. but you know, the. It's, it's the competition for information.

Andrew Lewin: You have TV and reality TV and sports and all this coming at you and you're like, I want to be entertained, or I wanna do this, I wanna do that. And then so when something negative comes at you and you have to do something, you may not want to do that. Whether it's in a, a, a, a behavioral change and using less plastic or picking better seafood, more, having that information to pick it.

Andrew Lewin: My role is to provide that information. So if people want to know how to, one of my taglines is how to live for a Better Ocean. I provide you the information so you can make that decision yourself. if you just, if you listen to my podcast and you just say, yeah, you know what, I'm not gonna do that, although I have that [00:35:00] information, that's fine.

Andrew Lewin: Right? My goal is to provide you with that information so you can make that decision.

Howard: Well, and, and I love the fact that a podcast like yours is a resource. So if I need information, chances are. Andrew's talked about this or had a guest on that could speak to it, or if I think it's important, I can go to Andrew and say, Andrew, I think this is an important topic worth speaking about. You might want to consider it.

Howard: And, and, and that's what I, that's the, for me, that's the power of the podcast because as you said, there's so many, there's so much competition for our attention, and it gets back to like, why is, are your listeners dropping off after 20 minutes? Because it's true. It's the commute, it's the walk the dog.

Howard: It's, I need to do a quick exercise and then I'm off doing something else. But if I can [00:36:00] consistently. Three times a week provide helpful information to someone who, who, and it educates them and they can then potentially decide, do I wanna support this initiative? And the whole idea around the ocean conservation is really, uh, unless you're a certain person on the East coast who doesn't want to protect the ocean, who you know,

Andrew Lewin: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's the thing. It's a common, it's a common thing. And actually, Unfortunately, he's passed away, uh, recently in the last couple years. But Wallace, Jane Nichols, Dr. Wallace, Jane Nichols, wrote a book called The Blue Mind, and it really changed the way a lot of people saw how important the ocean was.

Andrew Lewin: And, and the idea behind the book is he is a, he was a sea turtle biologist, uh, a marine biologist. He was actually one of the first people who were part of the team that put a tag on a sea turtle. And realize that these sea turtles go from like Baja, California all the way to Japan. so cutting edge kind of stuff.

Andrew Lewin: And he's al he always, he was always different in the way he did things. He [00:37:00] pursued things and communication was a big, uh, part of that. He wrote a book called Blue Mind, which was basically, uh, teaming up with neuroscientists and saying, Hey, there's a reason why we always want to go to the water when we go on vacation.

Andrew Lewin: There's a reason why the color blue is so popular with people. we go there because blue from a neuroscience perspective is relaxing and when people go out, so when you want to go to a Caribbean island or the Pacific, Hawaii or something like that, or Fiji, and you wanna relax on the beach and stare out into the ocean.

Andrew Lewin: It's because it relaxes your mind and it's likes you were scientifically proven that it does that. And there's a number of other reasons why, he listed out in that book, I highly recommend that book because, it, it's, it's, and he, and he, he and he only, he not only wrote the book, but he had workshops on it and stuff like that.

Andrew Lewin: He even teamed up with Jack Johnson. Like Jack Johnson was a big fan of his, uh, I'm sure it was mutual, but it was, that's what he really talked about. And, and I think it was such a, [00:38:00] it, it, it really clarified. the act for me was like, people love the ocean. Doesn't matter if you're on one side of the aisle politically or the other.

Andrew Lewin: People love the ocean. People like to fish. People like to,go out and scuba eye. People like to snorkel, just swim. some people don't even like being in the ocean, but like being around the ocean, right? They're afraid of the critters that are in there. I get it. I totally get it. Some people will spend all day in a tide pool and just look at critters and stuff like that.

Andrew Lewin: You never know what people. Loves to do or what people don't. But ocean is always that common strain that just like, hey, like let's, let's, let's enjoy this part by the ocean. and so I think that's like a big part of it and, and, and it helps to bring people on in a, in a podcast where I, I try not to judge.

Andrew Lewin: I, I call things out when I see it, but I try not to judge the people who are doing it because I don't want to isolate a specific audience. like if, if, everything is so politically divided, we see, people who are, like podcasters, even like [00:39:00] interviews, like, Howard Stern just got, his show canceled.

Andrew Lewin: Um, not sure if it was 'cause he wanted to retire, but it said it was canceled. A lot of people are speculating. It's because he came out and he said, anybody who voted. For the president that's in, I don't want, I don't wanna have anything to do with you. And of course that isolates, potentially half of America.

Andrew Lewin: And so his, his ratings may, I don't know for sure, have taken a dip because of it. I was actually a, an audience member actually told me one time, he's like, 'cause I kind of came out and talked about this when in Trump's first presidency. And they said, well, maybe you shouldn't talk about it from that. Type of political way because you might isolate your audience.

Andrew Lewin: 'cause there are a lot of people who are, who voted Republican last election or voted conservative here in Canada, that still love the ocean. They still love the environment they want, may wanna protect it, but they have other issues that they want, to vote for, for whatever that might be. And to.

Andrew Lewin: All of a sudden come in, and this is, I, I don't judge anybody who does the opposite or anything like that, but for me it was like, I just wanna present the information from a scientific and [00:40:00] conservation perspective as a way of, my goal is always to protect the ocean, right? And the people around it.

Andrew Lewin: That's how I per,

Howard: and it's con that is a consistent, uh, angle where you, there is very little gray area. I'm, I want to present the science.

Andrew Lewin: Mm-hmm.

Howard: With this particular goal, and I love that. I, my episodes will tend to stretch every once in a while. I

Andrew Lewin: Oh, me too. Yeah, for sure.

Howard: but hey, before we head out, I wanted to ask you a question.

Howard: I noticed that you have established a podcast network. Speak up for Blue. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Andrew Lewin: So that, the, the, the network has taken, uh. Some terms, when I, I think when we think, I think when you, when you think of a network and your audience thinks of a network. Like a podcast network now they think of like this machine that has a number of different, uh, podcast shows on it.

Andrew Lewin: And they work collectively and they probably get paid through [00:41:00] that network, through advertisements and, and things like that. And they probably prop each other up. They probably advertise on, on each other's shows. And originally that's, that's, that was the goal, the eventual goal for the podcast network that I found.

Andrew Lewin: But when I first started podcasting, I would go to conferences and I would talk how I wanted more people to podcast. And people were asking like, Andrew, why are you doing this? You're just gonna create competition for yourself. And I'm like, no, we need more podcasters talking about the ocean. We need people who do not look like me or do not sound like me to talk about the ocean.

Andrew Lewin: We need people who look like me and sound like me because everybody, as Howard, like everybody. That's listening in. Your audience has a particular person or, um, podcast host, maybe let's say that they connect with, and certain, some people will connect with me and some people will connect with other people, and there's, there's nothing wrong with that.

Andrew Lewin: But I don't wanna just say, I don't want anybody else to podcast because I want everybody to listen to me. What if you don't connect with me, you're not gonna listen to me. That's, there's enough podcasts out there that you can, you wanna learn the banjo, you can learn on a podcast, you know how to, how to [00:42:00] do that.

Andrew Lewin: So I wanted more and more people to podcast. So as that was happening, people were like, I wanna start a podcast. How do I do that? And so I was like, look, I'm a scientist. It's all about, and conservation, it's all about collaboration. So when I first started, I said, I'll tell you what, I will pay for your hosting if you create the content.

Andrew Lewin: I'm like, alright, cool. And I'm like, we'll have like a bit of a network where it, it, the network wasn't necessarily to, it wasn't for financial reasons, it was more to support each other. Let's prop each other up. Let's support each other on, I had trouble with it, as I mentioned, with the technology of how to start it, this and that.

Andrew Lewin: So I'll help you with that. I'll teach you whatever you need to know. If you ever want to get off my account, that's fine, like no problem. But we had a bit of a network and we were promoting each other as we go. As we go on. And we had some great shows. We had marine conservation, happy hour. We had a show called Dugongs and Sea Dragons.

Andrew Lewin: Both of 'em are still, are still on. They're just off the, off our, quote net. Work. but they're still going. And it was just great. We had a lot of people, who really enjoyed podcasting, marine mammal [00:43:00] science, which is pretty self-explanatory. What that was. Madam Curie, which was like a, a, a women in science kind of podcast and, and, and, documenting the, history of women in science.

Andrew Lewin: And so there's a lot of, a lot of different types of, of podcasts. We had a a a Stan, which is like the Spanish version of, of. Of the, uh, of speed of how to protect the ocean. So we had a lot of these different shows, so I was like, let's just, let's just call ourselves a network. But we didn't have like a website that had all of those necessarily.

Andrew Lewin: I would do it on like my Twitter page at the time and, and have all the, like the. The cover arts and all that kinda stuff, but it was very loose and I never, I got so busy doing my own stuff, as seven episodes and even three episodes is busy enough, plus working full-time. Plus, being a hockey coach and a football coach and a parent and all this kind of stuff, it, it was just too much and I couldn't focus on it.

Andrew Lewin: So we kind of disbanded or a lot of us disbanded and I kind of just started over.

Howard: Okay.

Andrew Lewin: I have the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast, which is what I call sort of [00:44:00] like the flagship, what started it all. And now I, I co-host another podcast, which is an old guest of mine, Dr. David Ebert, uh, called Beyond Jaws. And it's all about like shark careers and how, people have done their careers and what kind of research they've been into and all that kind of stuff.

Andrew Lewin: And he's a guy who's been in the business for, been in shark science for. Since the 1970s and we call 'em the Jaws generation and, and we've had great episodes on there. So it's back to those two shows. But now I'm more focused, and I, I have a plan of how I want to get this, this would be more financial 'cause I want to do this full time, but also expand the podcast, but also have a little bit more control in like, own the ip.

Andrew Lewin: Like I'll create the podcast myself and then. Pay hosts to host it. So if one wants to host for a long time, that person will get paid accordingly. If they, if they can't do it, because that's what, that was the problem I was having is it wasn't, the consistency wasn't there, like my podcast. So I wanted the consistency to, to continue on.

Andrew Lewin: So if I can, [00:45:00] if that person can't do it for whatever reason, they're doing a PhD or they're doing something else, I can bring in someone else and pay them. But I can, I, I hold the IP because I want the subject matter to get out. I want people to enjoy it and continue to have it for years to come. Just like how to protect the ocean and like, beyond Jaws, beyond Jaws, I think we're in our fourth year of, of doing that, that podcast.

Andrew Lewin: So it's, it's a lot, it's a lot more business strategy like, uh, than let's just all support each other and it's kind of like a bit of, it was a lot more chaotic.

Howard: I love it. I love it. Well, it, it's a, I think it's, it's a great place for folks to come and consume. Good content, valuable content at their leisure. And rather than trying, I mean, I can do a Google search and look for a podcast, not, on, on the outdoor space or conservation space. But I love the fact that you're, you're bringing people together.

Andrew Lewin: In the interest of time, uh, I, I'm sure we could continue to go on. I, I know [00:46:00] it's, uh, let's see, it's, uh, four o'clock here in Las Vegas, so it's probably dinner time right now. yeah. Stomach's sc grumbling a little bit.

Howard: stomach crumbling. So, and I know I don't want to get between you and quality dinner time with the, with the kids and the wife, but if our listeners would like to learn more about you and your work, where are the best places to go?

Andrew Lewin: Well, the best place would go to the website. So that's, uh, speak up for blue.com, which, something of of interest is, that's what this podcast used to be called, speak Up for Blue. So it's Speak Up for Blue. The, it's, it's not the number, it's FOR blue uh.com. And if you go there, you'll find, uh, beyond Jaws, you'll find a couple of other podcasts that we've, we've played around with.

Andrew Lewin: but you'll find how to protect the ocean as well in all of our episodes, like 1800 episodes Beyond Jaws. I think we're just over a hundred. there's, there's quite a number of episodes, uh, to, to be on there, so, so lots to listen to.

Howard: Excellent. And we've, I know we've got your, uh, social sites like Facebook, Instagram, and, and LinkedIn. So we'll provide, uh, back[00:47:00]

Andrew Lewin: Also on YouTube, I, I've, I got into video podcasting, believe it or not.

Howard: I I, I did notice there on the pod match page, there was also a TikTok. I cannot get my head around TikTok. it's a, I, I, I we're on YouTube as well.

Howard: Norm, if I'm doing a destination or a Chamber of commerce. Or depending on, on the type of guests, I'll, we'll do a tour of their website

Andrew Lewin: Oh yeah, of course.

Howard: lot of con and that all goes up on, like, this episode will go up on YouTube as well. By the way, I, I need more photos than just your smiling face,

Andrew Lewin: Oh yeah, we'll, we'll send you some.

Howard: all right.

Howard: so I love it. Listen, Andrew, it's a great, uh, pleasure to have you on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed yourself. I certainly enjoyed. Learning more about you and your work and hopefully, uh, we'll do it again sometime. So thank you so much for spending time today.

Andrew Lewin: Howard, thank you so much for having me on. I had a blast. this has been so much fun to be able to talk about, a subject that I'm very near and dear to obviously, but it's, it's just be able, it's great to share it with your audience. I really appreciate it.[00:48:00]

Howard: Sounds good. Listen, stay in the line. We're gonna do a quick close and you and I can have a final chat, okay?

Andrew Lewin: Perfect.

Howard: Alright folks, we have just been chatting with Andrew Lewin. Marine biologist. he is an employee of the Canadian government doing cool things, to add data and content out into the, uh, conservation space.

Howard: So making a difference there. And he is the host of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast and also, Affiliated with the Speak Up for Blue Podcast Network. Now, I hope you enjoy this episode. My God, he dropped a lot of names. We'll, we'll get as many of those into our show notes as possible with links, uh, especially this book, the Blue Mind.

Howard: and, uh, I think I, I have a, my to do to make a couple introductions for him to some future guests that he can have. On his podcast. So I hope you enjoy this episode. It's such an important topic, conservation, the ocean. And, and I love the fact the, the color blue, 'cause I [00:49:00] love just sitting by the ocean, looking at the, looking at the horizon and the blue water and just, and I just realized my logo, outdoor adventure series is blue and I'm wearing blue.

Howard: He's wearing blue. I mean, who knew? This is great. Listen, I hope you enjoyed this episode. do check us out on our website, outdoor adventure series.com. We are also on LinkedIn and Facebook on our outdoor adventure series pages. The video of this episode will be up on our YouTube channel. And of course, uh, you can find this episode wherever you get your podcast from.

Howard: And if you are on sites like Apple and Spotify or even on our website, we love comments, especially likes and sharing. And let us know what you thought. Okay? So wherever you are, whatever you're doing, go out there. Have a fantastic day, and we look forward to having you join us on a future episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series Podcast.

Howard: Take care now. [00:50:00]