March 17, 2026

Navigating the World Alcohol-Free: Sober Travel Tips From an Outdoor Enthusiast

Welcome to the Outdoor Adventure Series podcast! In this episode, we're chatting with travel writer, outdoor enthusiast, and author Teresa Bergen. Teresa, a longtime sober traveler and advocate, shares her passion for exploring the world alcohol-free and discusses her newly published "Sober Travel Handbook: Navigating the World Alcohol-Free." From kayaking the Chicago River to rafting the Grand Canyon, Teresa inspires listeners with stories of her adventures and insightful tips for navi...

From kayaking the Chicago River to rafting the Grand Canyon, Teresa inspires listeners with stories of her adventures and insightful tips for navigating travel without alcohol. Whether you're in recovery, simply prefer not to drink, or are curious about embracing sober travel, Teresa’s experiences, practical advice, and enthusiasm for the outdoors offer a fresh perspective on how to fully enjoy life’s adventures. Tune in as Teresa talks about her journey, the importance of support systems, and how outdoor activities can shift the focus from drinking to discovery—all while encouraging everyone to pursue new interests and enjoy the outdoors, alcohol-free.

DISCUSSION

00:00 "Embracing Outdoors at Any Age"

04:37 Journey to Writing About Sober Travel

06:33 "Sober Travel Writing Journey"

11:00 Short, Firm Ways to Say No

13:02 "Sober Life and Connection"

19:04 Abstinence Violation Effect Explained

22:23 Kayaking and Watercoloring Adventures

25:09 Sober Bars and Book Tour

27:44 Grand Canyon Rafting Adventure

33:04 Paddleboarding and River Adventures

36:16 "Kayaking with Alligators."

38:10 "Reflecting on Passion and Growth."

40:43 "Embrace Imperfection, Try Again."

LEARN MORE

To learn more about Teresa and her work, visit her website at http://teresabergen.com/ or on these social sites:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ride4_rights/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teresa.bergen.3

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresa-bergen-1083463a

NEXT STEPS

Visit us at https://outdooradventureseries.com to like, comment, and share our episodes.

KEYWORDS

Teresa Bergen, Sober Traveler Handbook, Outdoor Adventure Series, Podcast Interview, PodMatch

#TeresaBergen #SoberTravelerHandbook #PodcastInterview #PodMatch

My Favorite Podcast Tools:

Production by Descript
Hosting Buzzsprout
Show Notes by Castmagic
Website powered by Podpage
Be a Podcast Guest by PodMatch
Banner Customization by Nano Banana & Canva

WEBVTT

00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:20.960
Hello everyone, this is Howard Fox, and welcome back for another episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series, the podcast that celebrates individuals and families, businesses, and organizations that seek out and promote the exploration, stewardship, conservation, access, and enjoyment of the outdoors.

00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:23.199
Teresa Bergen is our guest today.

00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:32.880
Teresa is a travel writer and a longtime sober person who helps others in recovery see the world without picking up a drink.

00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:41.200
She is also the author of the newly published book, Sober Travel Handbook, Navigating the World Alcohol Free.

00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:43.520
Teresa, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:44.479
Welcome.

00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:45.600
Hi, Howard.

00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:46.560
Thanks so much for having me.

00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.159
I'm a big outdoors enthusiast as well, so I'm excited to be on your show.

00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:51.280
I love that.

00:00:51.359 --> 00:01:03.039
And I have to share, while I host the outdoor adventure series podcast, I do not get outdoors and explore as much as some of my guests do.

00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:11.359
And as I was researching for this uh episode today, I'm thinking this woman really gets out there and is going to some exciting places.

00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:16.959
And and I also have to share, I it was not lost on me that you were kayaking on the Chicago River.

00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:17.840
Good for you.

00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:22.319
I I'm originally from Chicago, but Chicago's beautiful and it's so fun.

00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:24.719
Next time you get back there, you got to go kayak on it.

00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.040
I think that would be uh something definitely to do.

00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:32.079
The last time I was on a kayak, I literally was pushed out onto the water and tipped over.

00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:40.879
So I don't I I so I I have this feeling, but in any case, this is all about you today because I want to hear all about you.

00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:42.959
First off, where are you located?

00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:45.120
Well, right now I live in Portland, Oregon.

00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:53.599
I've been here since the year 2000, and places I've lived before include um California, various parts of California, and also a couple of places in Louisiana.

00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:54.239
Okay.

00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:58.959
Now, have you always been an outdoor enthusiast?

00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:08.800
Because you, again, you've gone to some really fantastic places, and for our listeners, we're going to take a tour of Teresa's website in a little bit, and you'll see some of her destinations.

00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:23.759
But how did you begin to get the first off the the love of the outdoors and being an outdoor enthusiast, and then the travel bug of actually taking this passion to the four corners of the earth?

00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:29.039
Well, it's funny, and I want readers to, I mean, listeners, I I'm such a writer, I'm always thinking of readers.

00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.479
Readers, writers, talkers, walkers.

00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:33.280
We got it all.

00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:41.039
I want everybody to know this because I was a much more of an artsy person when I was younger, and my love of the outdoors has grown as I've gotten older.

00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.719
So I want people to know just because you're not in your 20s anymore, doesn't mean you can't start doing outdoorsy stuff.

00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:55.520
That said, one of my earliest outdoor activities as a little child was I wanted to be an entomologist and I was fascinated with bugs.

00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:02.639
So I was always out in the backyard catching bugs and observing bugs and reading the golden book of insects with my mom.

00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.479
My favorite with the praying mantis.

00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:05.360
Okay.

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:11.120
Now, were you the the class nerd in school, always looking and playing with bugs?

00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:16.240
Or um, I wouldn't say I was the nerd, but I was always a little bit offbeat.

00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:17.680
Okay, okay.

00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:21.360
I always had different interests, and I was always pursuing my interests.

00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:22.000
Okay.

00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:25.360
Now, when you were uh a child, where were you?

00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:26.560
Were you first off?

00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:30.879
I'm thinking New Orleans, Louisiana, there's big bugs down there.

00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:31.840
A lot of bugs.

00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:34.960
Yeah, I encountered them later, but I grew up in San Diego.

00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:35.680
Oh, okay.

00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.280
That's there's no bugs there, maybe just uh lots of bugs.

00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:40.240
Yeah, you in the yard.

00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:42.479
You had to, but sometimes you have to go looking for them.

00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:47.759
Like I had a pet lizard for a long time that one of our cats brought in and and I rescued.

00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:57.919
And my mom and I spent many bonding moments going out and turning over rocks, trying to catch bugs to bring inside to feed to the lizard in his terrarium, live bugs, so he could hunt them in the terrarium.

00:03:58.159 --> 00:03:58.800
I love that.

00:03:58.960 --> 00:03:59.759
I love that.

00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:09.759
And I'm curious, as you were uh getting older, when did where did you uh type of a background training education did you have?

00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:12.240
A lot of writing.

00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:19.439
So I I am a writer and I have an undergraduate degree in journalism and a master's degree in fiction writing.

00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:32.000
So I've always been interested in other stuff too, but I'd say I was more in the humanities with writing and history and English and social sciences, and not nearly as strong in math or science.

00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:36.959
Although I wish I had applied myself more to those subjects when I was younger.

00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:52.000
Uh I I sometimes I wish I had, I just don't ever think I had the science bug in me because I always wanted to be a doctor, but uh that was I think I'm in addition to podcasting and coach, I'm a coach, leadership development coach, and uh that that fits very well.

00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:55.680
But sometimes we don't get to where we want to be until later in life.

00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:01.600
And uh but it's good that you you discovered that love of writing uh at an early age.

00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:18.480
Now you I know you've written a number of books, and again, we'll we'll visit a couple of those on your website, but what what was the kind of like the the journey to writing this book about sober travel and this this this need for this handbook?

00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:22.160
What what compelled you to want to write this kind of a book?

00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:27.120
So I had trouble with alcohol and other substances from a young age.

00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:31.040
And fortunately, I was able to quit really young.

00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.519
I quit I quit everything when I was only 20.

00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.680
I stopped drinking before I was even legal because I had a problem with it.

00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:42.399
And that has allowed me to have like a whole adult life to not be stuck in addiction.

00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.360
So I've been really, really fortunate that way to have a problem early, identify it early and get out of it.

00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:52.639
And a lot of that is thanks to I had a really nice family who helped me and supported me.

00:05:52.879 --> 00:06:01.600
But okay, so I had that background of being a longtime sober person, and then I've also been travel writing professionally for about 15 years.

00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:10.560
Okay, so those things kind of converge because so much of travel emphasizes alcohol because that's just the norm in our culture is to drink.

00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.839
People assume you drink unless you tell them otherwise.

00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:29.279
And so as I was uh traveling as a travel writer, which sometimes I was traveling on my own, sometimes I was on press trips with other groups, with groups of other travel writers and um PR kind of people, there was just such an emphasis on the drinking.

00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.680
And so people were always like, Oh, I'm a wine writer.

00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:40.399
Oh, I write about craft beer, and we were always going on these tours to these wineries and stuff where I'm like, la, I'm not gonna pay any attention because I don't drink stuff.

00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:44.560
But it was kind of a handicap for a long time as a travel writer.

00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.879
But then I just thought about turning it around.

00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:52.560
So I started announcing to people when they said they were a wine writer, I'd say, Well, I write about sober travel.

00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.000
I had no idea what that entailed.

00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:59.759
I just started saying that to try to switch it around so I wasn't at a disadvantage.

00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:10.399
So I've been writing more about travel through a sober lens for maybe the last eight or nine years, and then started to think about maybe there's a book in this about four years ago.

00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:11.120
Okay.

00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:40.240
And how do you inform or help the individuals that are that are wanted to travel and explore and and I do get that alcohol is is heavily involved, but how do you help them navigate when they're in a social situation, they are in an exotic place, and I'm not gonna drink.

00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:46.639
And and and like for me, I just to share this, I I I'm really not a drinker.

00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:53.519
I love a beer, I like a glass of wine every once in a while, but I just don't drink, it's just not something I do.

00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:01.519
And so it's easier for me to have a glass of seltzer water, soda water with a lemon or lime in it, and I'm good.

00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.800
Nobody will ever know.

00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:09.759
But how do you help someone who perhaps they can't they have a similar story, a journey that you've had?

00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.000
They want to travel, they want to get out there.

00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:13.120
How do you help them?

00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:19.839
What advice would you have for them to navigate this little hurdle so that they can have a good time?

00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:21.839
Well, you make a really good point.

00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.360
There's lots of people who are kind of take it or leave it drinkers like you are.

00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:29.759
So this might not be something they've thought of because it just isn't part of their own experience.

00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:38.879
But for people who have had some kind of a drinking problem, especially in quit, then lots of times they're able to make a safe space at home.

00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:45.200
They have like a regular routine, they have people that they see in their everyday lives that support them being sober.

00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:57.200
And so they feel real safe there, but then they get scared at the idea of venturing beyond that because uh, for one thing, when you go somewhere else and nobody knows you, it's like, oh, I could be anyone, I could do different things.

00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:05.840
So I advise people who are who are going to travel for the first time without drinking to first of all have a good support system.

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:07.919
And your support system starts at home.

00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.159
So have people at home that you're gonna check in with.

00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:15.919
So they know you're going here, they know you're having these thoughts about like, oh, what if people try to get me to drink?

00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:21.120
So it's it's important to check in with people back home that will support you.

00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:29.360
Um support people in person too where you're going, that is also an excellent thing, but that doesn't always happen.

00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:37.919
And how do you bridge that that little gap of uh I'm there, I mean solo traveling.

00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:49.360
I mean, I I'm I'm I'm a solo traveler uh when I'm not going to like an association meeting, but how do you bridge that gap when you are but you have a nice Moscow mule mug there?

00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:51.679
I that's not that's not lost on me.

00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:52.879
Oh, isn't this funny?

00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.159
I just I didn't even know this was a mock-down mule when I first got it.

00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:59.200
I really like drinking out of copper, and I think it's so beautiful.

00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.519
And so I drink my water out of this all the time.

00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.799
And I had I didn't even know until I I guess I think I saw one somewhere.

00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:09.759
I'm like, oh, it's a special drink, it's a special cup for special drink.

00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.000
I I I think so that's cute.

00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:22.159
Now, okay, in all seriousness though, uh the reason I know that by the way, when I the the roommate and their boyfriend, they're they're into their whatever they're into.

00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:25.919
One of those is the Moscow mule, and she brings out the the mugs.

00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.039
Oh, isn't that cute?

00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:32.559
In any case, what's the what techniques or advice would you give for the traveler?

00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:39.840
They're maybe they're the solo traveler, they don't have that support system with them on site.

00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:47.279
What advice would you give to them for helping to navigate, which in my mind it's an easy subject.

00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:49.919
Thank you, but I I I really don't drink.

00:10:50.240 --> 00:11:00.000
However, how what advice would you give to someone who perhaps hasn't been able to articulate and feel comfortable saying I don't drink?

00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.159
Practice it ahead of time.

00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:07.519
There are a lot of ways to say it, and you don't owe anybody an explanation unless you feel like giving them.

00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.159
You can just say, no, no, thank you.

00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:14.799
If you feel like you really have to give an excuse, you can think of some ahead of time.

00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:25.679
And it can be just something like, oh, it doesn't make me feel very good, or I have an early morning, or it doesn't lots of times it doesn't respond well with them, it doesn't interact well with the medication.

00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:27.919
I mean, you can tell them the truth or you can make something on.

00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.120
It doesn't really matter just to keep yourself safe here.

00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:32.799
Or you could say, no, I'm driving.

00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:40.639
There's a lot of and you again, you don't have to give them any explanation, but if it's gonna make you feel more comfortable to give them a short one, just make it short.

00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:42.559
Don't start telling them your life story.

00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:43.200
Sure.

00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:48.639
And I I love the fact that you don't owe anybody an explanation.

00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:56.399
It could be thank you very much, but I'm gonna pass this evening or tomorrow or for this trip, etc.

00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:02.320
What when you are at a an event, is that any different for you?

00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:17.519
And the reason I ask is as a professional writer, travel writer, you probably get to go to a lot of like professional events where it's networking, there's liquor is everywhere.

00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:33.919
Well, are there any different kinds of challenges there versus say you're just traveling from you're in Rome or Bangkok or Sydney and there's liquor and you're saying no, versus say at this organized big event.

00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:35.840
How is that any different?

00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:43.840
Well, some of it is mental because um sometimes I think people care more about whether I drink or not than they really do.

00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.799
And I'll start to get this resentment like, oh, everybody else is friends because they're drinking.

00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.840
Everybody else is making this deal because they're drinking.

00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:52.720
And that's on me.

00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:57.440
I have to kind of shift my head around and be like, they're doing their thing, I'm doing mine.

00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:02.399
Maybe we're gonna be friends, maybe we're not, but I don't have to, I don't have to drink just because they are.

00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:12.559
And I'm as I become more public about being sober because I'm doing this work and I'm telling people I've been sober travel, I've met so many people who don't drink.

00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:16.159
And some of them are in recovery, but a lot of them have other reasons they don't drink.

00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.720
And some of them are at those professional meetings with me.

00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:20.799
And it's really nice when I identify them.

00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.559
And I know there's some other people around who also are drinking.

00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:30.320
But before I started developing this area of work, I didn't realize that.

00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:37.840
And I did feel kind of sometimes it was easy to get in this kind of pattern of, oh, feeling sorry for my oh, for me, I'm different because of this or that.

00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.559
And again, that's kind of an artificial mindset.

00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:41.840
It's not usually the truth.

00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:47.360
And if someone really does care that I'm not drinking, it's usually because they're wondering about their own drinking.

00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:49.360
It doesn't really reflect on me.

00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.320
I'm curious, and I certainly do not know the answer to this.

00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:04.879
And there's there's a lot of cultures where being invited into a home is a part is is a part of their their upbringing, their DNA.

00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:23.039
And do you ever find or have you ever crossed a circumstance where you were invited into a home and say, you know, food was being served, you're breaking bread, some type of alcohol, whatever it was was being offered.

00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:32.480
How do you say no in those instances instances when uh a cultural fall paw is a possibility?

00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:39.600
Yeah, this is kind of a nightmare for me because even worse in these situations than not drinking is that I'm also vegan.

00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:42.320
So that is like my nightmare.

00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.399
And it's and sometimes I plan around that.

00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:49.440
Like there's places I'm not gonna go or I'm not gonna do a home stay because I know I'm gonna offend people.

00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:50.720
So I kind of look into that.

00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.039
And sometimes if you really think you're gonna be in that situation, try not to get into it.

00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:02.639
And if you are with its alcohol, I mean, for especially for people who have had a problem with it, that's like life or death.

00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.879
I mean, I have I have had some shy before with milk in it because someone offered it to me.

00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.679
And I'm like vegan, I it's a preference, it's not gonna kill me.

00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:17.360
But the alcohol, I'm definitely gonna draw the line and I'm gonna say, um, I might just say I have an allergy, which is kind of true in a way.

00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:24.159
Like if you, if you, if the drinking produces really bad behavior in you, you have like a history of that happening.

00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.759
I mean, we can call that an allergy.

00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:29.519
It's not it's not an outright lie, but I would probably say something like that.

00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:30.960
Like, I really can't drink.

00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.759
Or you can also say it's your religion, because people respect that lots of times.

00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.559
And there are religions that discourage or forbid drinking.

00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.679
Not that everybody always obeys it, but there are religions.

00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:45.039
So you could say one of those things.

00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:51.840
You could say you have an allergy, you could say you have a medical interaction, you could say you have that your religion forbids it.

00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:52.480
Okay.

00:15:53.519 --> 00:16:02.000
And I mean, you're in in Portland now, it's you're fairly close to some good wine country.

00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:08.320
And do you do you ever get invited or uh have been invited with the friends?

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.759
Hey, we're going out to the vineyards and come on with us.

00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:14.720
There's a lot to see and do, and hopefully eat.

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:19.120
I d I never say no to food unless it's something incredibly exotic.

00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:21.919
Like that's not, I don't want anything to do with it.

00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:36.080
But if if I'm traveling, say to with my friends and family, obviously I have my support system, but we're in a place that a vineyard I can't help but want to smell the aroma, taste, take a sip.

00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.480
How do we handle that type of situation?

00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:41.679
It really depends on what kind of non-drinker you are.

00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:52.720
So if you're a non-drinker because you just don't like alcohol, or maybe it's religious or medical interaction and you're not going to feel overly tempted, just go drink something else.

00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:54.480
All the wineries have really good food.

00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:55.600
Vineyards are beautiful.

00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.120
So sure, go with them.

00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.360
If you're someone who's in recovery, I would only go if I felt really secure.

00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.880
If I was newly in recovery, I'd be like, ah, give it a pass.

00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:06.960
I'll do something else with you another day.

00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.000
You have to sort of figure out what's for me and what's not for me.

00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.160
I recently went to an event.

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:18.400
It was a dry January event at a local winery, um, or like an hour away from me in the Willamette Valley.

00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:19.680
It was very interesting.

00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.599
It was like a different sort of thing for me.

00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.480
And they had all these de-alcoholized wines.

00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:26.160
It was very odd.

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.960
But I participated, it was kind of interesting.

00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:34.400
Um, and I think more wineries are making their own de-alcoholized wines now.

00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:39.039
So I would call ahead if I was gonna go and make sure there was something for me.

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:45.359
And some of them will even let you bring your own drink if you're a non-drinker who's going with a group of people wine tasting.

00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:53.279
That sounds a little weird, but if you really want to go and participate, but again, if you're feeling kind of iffy and you're in recovery, just skip it.

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:53.920
Okay.

00:17:54.480 --> 00:18:02.000
So I've got one last question, and then I'd love to take us to the website just to the so we can learn more about your work.

00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.039
And I know my listeners would appreciate that as well.

00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:21.839
If I'm out traveling, exotic location, alcohol is there, and maybe I I'm feeling like I just I'm getting I'm in the moment with my friends, these new acquaintances, and I'd have that sip.

00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.079
Is that the worst thing that can happen?

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.799
Is this a sip or is there something do I really need to be attuned to?

00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.279
Like, I just did something I know I shouldn't have done.

00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.319
If you're in recovery, I would say do not take that sip.

00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.839
And if you do, stop.

00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.799
If you're just someone who doesn't, I mean, I don't know what to say.

00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.799
If you're if it's your religion, that's on you, or if you have a medication interaction.

00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.319
But if you consider yourself in recovery, yeah, leave before that happens.

00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.119
If you're feeling like it's too slippery, then just call it a day.

00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.000
But don't I I would advise you not to take that sip.

00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.880
And if you somehow do, try to stop yourself.

00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.160
Don't just say, oh, screw it, because that's sometimes happens.

00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.119
There's something called the abstinence violation effect.

00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:17.519
And it's if you if you've been like say you've been sober for 10 years, and then you take a sip, you're like, oh, I just ruined my 10 years, I might as well just get drunk.

00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:23.599
That's not gonna serve you when I'm so if you do take a sip, like it's there have been a couple of times I've accidentally taken a sip.

00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:31.279
One time I was served, I I ordered uh like a sparkling apple juice and they gave me a hard cider instead.

00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.240
And I took a sip and I was like, and I I just sort of like backwashed it in the glass.

00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:41.279
I was with some other travel writers and I said, Oh my god, I think that was a hard cider.

00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.400
And what do they do?

00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.000
They just start passing it around, being like, Oh yeah, it is.

00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:52.480
And I'm thinking, one, I just accidentally sipped something alcohol, and two, now they're all drinking my backwash.

00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:59.119
So unfortunately, I was just able to stop and I and I just I said, Forget, don't even bring me the spit to the apple juice.

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.160
I'm just gonna drink water.

00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.720
I can see this is water, I can smell this is water.

00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:05.359
Yeah, so it's gotta rain it in if you screw up.

00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:14.160
Okay, and yeah, and give yourself a little grace and like you, mistake, and I'm aware of it now.

00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:28.640
All right, so I would love to, Teresa, if you're okay, is just let's take a tour of the website because I want to I want to talk more about the book and how it's been organized, but I really want to show my listeners some of the great work that you're doing as well.

00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.240
Okay, all right.

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:32.640
Now, hopefully, technology works.

00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.759
That's always a pleasure to do it.

00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.440
I don't think I'm a writer, but I'm not a pro website designer.

00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.240
So I have a pretty rudimentary website that I do myself.

00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.319
It's not it's not superficially.

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:43.440
It's pretty good.

00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:47.759
So Veg Travel and Fitness, and we're at Teresa Bergen.com.

00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.400
First off, where should we go to find the book?

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:51.279
Let's go take a look.

00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:52.559
Books by Teresa.

00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.559
Yeah, that's I'm I'm peering at it here.

00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:55.440
Yeah, that's it.

00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:56.079
Okay.

00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:57.920
Go there first.

00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.680
Silver travel handbook.

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.519
And I love the photo.

00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:04.880
Is this your photo?

00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:06.799
No, my publisher put that on.

00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.160
It's really pretty, isn't it?

00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:09.200
Yeah, I love that.

00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:11.839
I'm a big water person, so it's the kind of thing I like.

00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.240
And you're near water too, so it's uh not too bad.

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:24.319
So, how is this book organized and what will the reader expect when they open this up?

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:30.240
Well, the primary audience is people in recovery, and then the secondary audience is all non-drinkers.

00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:39.039
So there's some stuff that speaks especially to people in recovery, and then there's some more general stuff for what to do if you're a non-drinker and you're doing different kinds of stuff.

00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:42.079
So I have it right here, and let me just look at the table of contents.

00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:47.759
So we have we talk about what is sober travel and who are these sober travelers.

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:55.519
And then there's a lot of uh tips for various kinds of events you might find yourself in and how to avoid drinking at them.

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.680
And then there's also lots of stuff about different places you might.

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:06.640
Go where alcohol isn't the center or different kinds of activities you might want to do instead of drinking.

00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:07.119
Okay.

00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:21.680
I'm gonna know a lot of outdoorsy stuff because that is one of uh my favorite things is if you do outdoorsy stuff, um, sometimes there's alcohol involved, but it's not usually the center of it, especially if you're doing something like swimming or snorkeling or diving.

00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.839
Very hard to drink while you're scuba diving.

00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:24.640
Exactly.

00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.799
There was a um the kayaking is coming to mind.

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:35.119
I I was doing a podcast series with Gulf Shores and Orange Beach tourism a couple years ago.

00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:45.839
And I think at Orange Beach had a kayak tour they would take guest on, and you would take your paper and uh well no, I take the back.

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.039
They gave you everything you needed.

00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:54.480
It was basically watercoloring in a kayak out on the water, okay, in one of the inlets.

00:22:54.880 --> 00:23:04.960
And I would, as you were sharing that, I'm thinking, uh, yeah, you kayaking definitely, I know for me, definitely don't want to have a glass of anything, maybe with a water bottle.

00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:10.400
But I was once in a kayak and it was a double kayak, and the woman behind me was was steering.

00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:20.720
I was up front, and and she was with the paddle, I was the muscle, and she wanted to hand me her camera and say, Would you take a picture?

00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:25.599
And I said, Nope, I'm not taking your camera while I am in a kayak.

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:31.680
Because I don't want to be the cause of an accident or kayak is at the bottom of the of the inlet.

00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:41.039
So uh, but certainly that with uh with uh any type of uh beverage, uh just you want to stay safe.

00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.119
Well, very nice.

00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:46.079
And some of your other work that's here, what do we have?

00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:47.279
Historic cemeteries.

00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:49.200
Look at the big cemetery buff.

00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:56.000
And I wrote that with my friend Heidi during the pandemic because we figured it was pretty safe to be in cemeteries where uh everybody was already dead.

00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:56.960
There you go.

00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.799
I love it, I love it.

00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:01.119
Transcribing oral history.

00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:02.960
That's a whole different branch of my life.

00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.319
That's I also work in oral history, doesn't have any good battle.

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:15.200
But here'll be the one is more relevant, probably, to your listeners because this uh this book has a hundred easy outdoor things to do around the Portland area.

00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:16.319
Oh, I love it.

00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:18.559
That's a very big popular genre.

00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.279
There's a hundred things to do somewhere before you die.

00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.119
That's what the series is called.

00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:24.000
But I like that.

00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:31.200
Is also the one I'm working on right now, is totally playing off that, and it's called 100 Places to Visit Sober.

00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:32.960
Very nice.

00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:34.400
Very nice.

00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.160
And you're also uh a yogi, yeah, yoga teacher.

00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:44.240
That was I wrote that as tried to be kind of a basic intro to yoga philosophy.

00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:57.039
And I I was teaching a lot in gyms at the time, and people wanted the flexibility, the de-stressing, and a little the philosophy to improve their lives, but it wasn't like they wanted it wasn't like they wanted to learn Sanskrit or something.

00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:01.119
So I tried to just sort of distill it down to easy to understand stuff.

00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.119
Very nice, very nice.

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:08.960
And how has the reaction been to the to the uh sober travel handbook?

00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:11.599
Oh, well, right now I'm I'm having a good time.

00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:16.000
I've been doing a book tour going to sober bars.

00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:22.000
So I don't know if you're familiar with sober bars, but they've been popping up around the country and in some other countries too.

00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:28.480
So these are gathering places that feature non-alcoholic drinks and they're for people who want to hang out without drinking.

00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.759
And they may or may not be people who don't drink at all.

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:45.680
Maybe they just want um some quiet time with friends and not in a drunken bar, or maybe either people that are pregnant, or also maybe a first date and they don't want to be getting drunk, they want to get to know each other, plus people who don't drink.

00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.720
So I've been going to some different sober bars and doing events.

00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:56.400
I was in San Diego last week and I did a short talk about my book, and then we also did a travel trivia contest, which was really fun.

00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:57.519
Oh, very nice.

00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.839
I mean, that those types of events that would interest me just to be in a bar and know I didn't have to have to drink.

00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:10.720
So a little so we got the the outdoor uh and fitness, and I'm gonna talk a little bit about the vegan.

00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:11.839
So so where did I see?

00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:12.960
Oh, yeah, there you go.

00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:16.000
Kayak, Chicago, and the Chicago River.

00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:20.720
That was so cool because Chicago is known for its architecture, right?

00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.480
And it all springs up around the river.

00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:23.039
So it's fun.

00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:28.319
I've picked an architectural boat tour, too, which is which is great, but it's so fun to be on a kayak.

00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:32.720
You're just like down there in the water and you're looking up at these massive skyscrapers.

00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:33.759
Really recommended.

00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:38.799
I had a I had a kayak guy named Will, Will Nelson, and he was fantastic.

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:42.880
He told me all about the history of Chicago, and he knew all about the nature too.

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.240
Oh, very good.

00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:51.039
The I mean, and that river, I lived in Chicago like almost almost half my life.

00:26:51.119 --> 00:27:07.680
It at one point it was half my life, but that river has gone through a a huge change since the early 90s of getting it cleaned up and making that whole wall, all the river accessible and just taking advantage of being actually being on it.

00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:14.640
And I do recall seeing kayakers, uh, but when those big tour boats go by, they they cause the wake.

00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:16.240
I don't know if I want to be there at that point.

00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:18.960
Well, it's exciting, they go fast, yeah.

00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:20.799
And then they go really fast.

00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:26.480
You feel it, and you have to just can't kind of hug the hug the edge of the river so you don't get run over.

00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.279
Sure.

00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:43.599
Now, as a sober traveler, when you are out either for your own pleasure or producing your own content, or even I guess producing content for a client, where are some of the places you have enjoyed visiting the most?

00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.039
Oh, well, as far as the sober part, uh, a lot of outdoorsy places.

00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:53.359
So, like I got a chance to go to raft the Grand Canyon a couple of years ago.

00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:55.759
My husband got to come too, and it was fabulous.

00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:00.240
We went, I think it was 180 miles of the Colorado River in a week.

00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:08.160
So there were a few people that brought some beer along, but when you're getting up at 5:30 in the morning and rafting all day, it's not like you want to be really drunk.

00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:13.200
So it was pretty minimal drinking and was all about the nature and the rafting and the family fun.

00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:18.319
So that was one, and then also I've enjoyed going places where there's just not a lot of alcohol.

00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:27.039
Like I had a really good time when I went to Jordan and I got to see the the Wadi Rum Desert and the famous city of Petra and stuff like that.

00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.119
That was really cool, and hardly anybody drinks in Jordan because it's mostly Muslim.

00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:32.400
Right, right.

00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.920
Uh I'm noticing here the kayaking the Ottawa River.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.400
I I do a podcast with a gentleman.

00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:40.480
We do like two episodes a month.

00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:54.559
He's an expert in a uh technology solutions or international standards, but he goes ice skating with his wife on on the on the Ottawa River.

00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:55.680
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.759
That's what they do, and that's what they do in the winter.

00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.200
I was just there last year, uh, when was it?

00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:06.720
It was either August or September, and you could still kayak and you could still swim.

00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:12.240
So they have this fabulous like river swimming pool that you can go in in the summer.

00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.039
It's like they have floating piers that mark off a rectangle, but it's really part of the river.

00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:20.960
It's kind of trippy because you you sort of feel like you're in a pool, but there could be fish too.

00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:21.599
Sure.

00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:22.880
It's really nice.

00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:24.480
Yeah, I love the Ottawa River.

00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.079
That's a fun place to visit.

00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:26.880
Definitely.

00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.359
Well, there's there's actually good coffee shops up there.

00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:35.440
That's my I would say my uh I wouldn't call it a weakness, I call it a passion.

00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:36.079
I love coffee.

00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:38.559
But me, no, no, I drink a lot of good coffee.

00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:40.079
Yes, but I'm in Fortnite.

00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:41.680
We have to drink coffee here.

00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:44.240
Yeah, and life is too short to drink bad coffee.

00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.359
So for sure.

00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:50.400
Now, I just noticed this you were mentioned earlier about being a vegan.

00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:54.079
So new Danner N45 vegan hiking boots.

00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.240
So let me just go ahead and click on that.

00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.920
So tell us about a little bit more about the vegan lifestyle.

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:08.960
So I've just been an animal lover my whole life, and I don't like to, when I was about 12, I realized I didn't want to eat animals.

00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:15.440
So I've been vegetarian or vegan for my whole adult life and a lot of my childhood too.

00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:25.519
So I try not to uh I try not to buy meat, although I have to say I am a slave to my cat, and so I still support the meat industry that way, which I wish I didn't.

00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:32.079
I'm hoping that there'll be a time when they have the lab-grown meat that they can make pet food and it's cheap enough that I can give them that.

00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:41.599
So I do my best not to contribute to the meat industry, but like I say, I have a weakness for my cat, and so I am far, far, far from perfect.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:42.319
Okay.

00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:53.200
Now, my the roommate and her boyfriend, they they're they've I think the cat has trained them very well, but they get little pieces of shrimp cut up every day.

00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.920
And if she doesn't have her shrimp, she starts crying by her dish.

00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.119
I don't know.

00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.200
Yeah, the cat deserved the best.

00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.440
My cat, he had a he had a blockage, a urinary blockage a year or so ago.

00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:10.319
So now he's on a special diet, but he had to give him, yeah, I would have got him all the shrimp and stuff back then.

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.319
But now he has to eat a special diet.

00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:13.119
Okay.

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:19.359
Now, as far as your artwork is concerned, what's your passion there in terms of what you've produced?

00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.400

Navigating the World Alcohol-Free: Sober Travel Tips From an Outdoor Enthusiast

Listen On

Recent Episodes

Accessibility Episodes

Birding Episodes

Biking Episodes

Chamber of Commerce Episodes

Community Episodes

Conservation Episodes

Destination Marketing Episodes

Fishing & Angling Episodes

Browse episodes by category