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Hello everyone, this is Howard Fox and welcome back for another episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series, the podcast that celebrates individuals and families, businesses, and organizations that seek out and promote the exploration, stewardship, conservation, access, and enjoyment of the outdoors.
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Melissa Rodway is our guest today.
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Melissa is the author of the travel memoir, The People You Meet, Luxury, Leeches, Love, and I hope I'm pronouncing this right, Lao Lao or Lolo.
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We'll find out soon.
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With a host of interesting characters in Southeast Asia.
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Melissa, how are you doing?
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And welcome to the podcast.
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Hello, Howard.
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Thank you so much.
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And yes, first try you got at Lao Lao.
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Lao Lao.
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So what does Lao Lao mean?
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Lao Lao is from the country of Lao.
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And I mean some people say Laos, but I think they're wrong.
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And when I was there, everyone said Lao.
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So Lao Lao is the drink.
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It's like fire water, basically.
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It's really potent sort of rice whiskey that they give you in that country.
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And it is it is like it's like you're being lit on fire.
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So if you need to like completely change your vibe, if you have some of that, you're gonna be somewhere else in about 30 seconds.
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Okay.
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And I would imagine too, it probably cure what ails you too.
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Uh and then some.
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And then some.
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I love that.
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Now, I I think in your background, it's safe to say you're not in Southeast Asia.
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Where's the background that you're on the I am not, so it looks like you are.
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I am well, I'm in Toronto, but my background is from Prince Edward Island.
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I was lucky to go there in October, and it's full of beautiful red sand and sand dunes, and oh, it's a stunning place.
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So you gotta go there.
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I have heard that, and uh I was I think we were just chatting uh before we hit record.
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Is I was just uh publishing an episode this week with uh Lewis Port in uh Newfoundland and Labrador, and as I was researching it, I was discovering Prince Edward Island, and I've thought, oh, that'd be a cool place to go.
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So I may now that I've actually seen somebody that's just been there and met somebody, I think I will have to figure out a way to get there.
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So thank you for that.
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Yes, you must.
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So I really want to get into uh talk with you about the book a little bit uh uh and how that evolved and just the your experiences of traveling in Southeast Asia.
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But just for I would love also just a little context about your background.
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You're living in, by the way, in one of my favorite cities in the whole world.
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I love Toronto.
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I grew up in the Detroit suburbs, so Detroit or Chicago to Toronto, piece of cake, and I I miss that.
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Wonderful place.
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But um tell give us a little context about your background.
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So yeah, I didn't grow up in Toronto.
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I grew up about an hour and a bit away from here in a small town called Port Perry.
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But I was very lucky because when I was about seven, my dad took us to Australia for a year.
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So in 1981, we lived in a a little bush town called Rollystone, uh just outside of Perth.
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And you know, when you're seven, that's pretty a pretty impressionable age.
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So I think that was privil pretty much what bit me the first time with adventure and seeing that you could have a life somewhere else.
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And my parents took us around Australia in a van and a camper van, and we went to Bali when no one was going to Bali.
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We went to New Zealand, so yeah.
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So that was a pretty big part of my uh early days, we'll say, here on the planet.
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Okay, okay.
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Now I I can imagine in the 80s, not many folks had had the opportunity to travel like you did into another country and just run around barefoot.
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I I suppose you could run around barefoot in Australia.
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I might it's not lost on me that there are uh the home to some of the most dangerous creatures in the world, spiders, snakes, crocodiles.
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However, but I imagine, you know, being the a little child, you're running around uh pretty much uh fast and free and and with uh minimal clothes.
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You got that partially right.
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We were clothes, but other than that, you're absolutely right.
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And yeah, like the Aussie kids, their feet were tough as nails, you know, because they were always just running around outside without shoes on, and we were probably a little bit more uh sensitive.
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Okay.
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With the yeah, it was it was like that spiders, snakes, we saw kangaroos sometimes in our distant backyard.
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So yeah, we were in a very remote area.
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Very cool.
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Now I am curious with your your father, was he like in government or academia that he was traveling for a year?
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He was a teacher, so back in the 80s, teacher exchanges were actually really common.
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Okay, so we just swapped houses, and my dad and another teacher swapped jobs, but they basically just swapped lives, you know.
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So yeah, it was very cool, and you're absolutely right.
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81.
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I mean, it was when you're from a small town, it was a really big deal, you know.
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The local paper had to come and interview us before we left.
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And yeah, people weren't doing that and going to Bali at that time.
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I mean, nobody was going to Bali.
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I have very vivid memories of our trip there, and um, it's not like that now, but yeah, yeah, pretty cool for 1981.
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Yeah, and so yeah, I would imagine some days you just stop and like you're this memory from your distant past or not so distant past, is like, oh, I remember that.
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That uh it kind of just hits you in the moment, and it's like you're you're back in Australia, back in Bali or wherever else you travel.
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You know, I have been blessed and cursed with a very, very good memory, so I can remember it as it was yesterday.
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But what was interesting is that my step-niece a few years ago went to Australia for about a month, and when she came back, she did a little slideshow, and just all of a sudden seeing these pictures, it just evoked all these memories like it was absolutely yesterday.
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So these things live with you forever, you know, no matter how often you think about them or don't, they are locked into your nervous system for the rest of your life, which is pretty cool.
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I love that.
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Now, when you eventually left, uh did were you able, even though you're just a young child, but as you were growing older, going into high school, at least I think it's high school in Canada, but you went on to you know the universities.
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Had you kept up that travel bug?
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I did in high school.
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I I spent a semester in Belgium.
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I loved the French language, so I did that.
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I did a few cool things in Canada.
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I lived in for summer in Trois Rier and Quebec.
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I lived in Jasper, Alberta, uh in the Rocky Mountains.
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So that was kind of my teen years, and I would say I fell into traveling being a constant in my late 20s.
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My early 20s, I moved around a lot, not really knowing what I was doing.
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And then I started traveling every year as of the age of like 28.
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I think I got the bug, and that was it.
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That's fantastic.
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And I I have to share when you mentioned Belgium, my my heart just did a little bit of a flutter.
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Coming from Chicago, I uh I am not Belgian or French or German.
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Well, I am German.
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Uh, but I was a member of the Belgian American Club of Chicago.
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And friends of mine that I played volleyball with, my I call her my older sister, she's Flemish.
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But I went to Belgium for this wedding of my my friends, and it was we were there for like a week, week and a half, and uh it just you know, when I think a good Belgian bear and mussels, it's just like yes.
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And when I go back to Chicago, it's like I have to go to this bar that has the best selection.
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But Belgian is wonderful, and yeah, you know, it's funny when I was my family always did like weekend vacations to the holida holiday and retreat, you know, where they had the pool and this and that.
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Same.
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We did go to like Mackinac Island up in uh Michigan, right by the the top of the the the hand in Michigan.
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But the I never really traveled until I was say like in my early thirties, and I ended up in the UK and the rest, as they say, is history.
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I love travel, and it's my goal to put the outdoor into the outdoor adventure series, because I d uh unfortunately I do a lot of my traveling kind of like right now, which is virtually, but yeah, you know, it's it's not it's not as t dire as that.
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So as you were beginning your travels, when when did going back to to Southeast Asia, because I have not ever been there, I want to go, I especially want to go to Vietnam, I want to go to Thailand, perhaps even Bali, but really Vietnam and Thailand, because I'm very much into the the healthy kind of cuisine there.
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I'm very much a foodie.
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But when did the the trip back there and how did that that occur and how long were you there?
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So, first of all, you can go to those places through my book, Howard, and all you have to do is read every chapter and you won't be there.
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Well, I I you know I I I love the fact that I can do that, and then and obviously a lot of folks are doing that, but it's I have a rule, I can't buy a trinket or anything, a shirt or a you know, something unless I've actually set foot there.
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Good.
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So but I can certainly read it on the way there.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So, yes, this trip came about um when being on another trip, and that's usually how trips happen.
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You know you're somewhere and you dream of the next place.
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So, long story short, I was in Cuba and uh I was on a cycling trip and I met a British man there.
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Okay, and he is the key player in this book.
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But from the moment that we met, we had an instant connection over travel, and we had decided that one day we would go to Southeast Asia.
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And several years after meeting him, he actually worked in luxury travel but was a massive backpacker, had done tons of travel, and so he was going on a trip in 2010 to make connections with luxury travel properties and tour operators and just creating a business plan sort of for down the road so that he could bring his own clients to these locations.
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And I did not love my job, I was 35 at that point, and I thought, why would I not do this?
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So I quit my job and off I went for about four months.
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He went longer, but um, that's how it happened, and it was 90% backpacking, 10% luxury.
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So maybe once a week we had the great fortune to stay in somewhere very, very nice, and that's how it happened.
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So there you go.
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Very nice.
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Well, you know, it's interesting that's I would imagine some folks very much all into luxury, some folks like you know, they're maybe not so, but they're into the backpacking and just hiking and just getting dirty and rough and but enjoying the experience of being right there on the ground level.
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Yeah.
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Is there a preference for you, but you kind of gravitate to both?
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I mean, I grew up like you did.
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My dad took us to the holiday inn.
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That was the big thing, you know.
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I didn't grow up in luxury.
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And I had been doing this with this guy from England for about four years before this trip.
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So it wasn't completely, it wasn't new.
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I mean, we would go away and we would have the opportunity to stay in places like that.
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But on this trip, we were exactly what you're saying.
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We were disgusting, we were hiking, we were dirty, we were, you know, very much backpacking, and then we would show up at these over-the-top places where we did not fit in.
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And my preference is not a luxury hotel.
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I mean, I love them, I appreciate them, and they are their own entity, but you don't get great stories from a luxury hotel.
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You get a very good sleep, though.
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And how it started unfolding was that they sort of became a place to hide for us.
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Like in the beginning, it was just, oh, aren't we lucky we get to stay here?
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But we could never afford to eat there or anything like that.
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So really it was more just sleeping, using the pool, the beach, the gym.
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But the more tired you get, we were actually by the end of my time after four months, like hiding in those luxury hotels because it was very hot.
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We were very tired.
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But the other thing is that luxury hotels have a lot to offer and there's a lot of pressure.
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So he and I were people that felt like we had to see and do it all.
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And when you're in a luxury hotel and you're only there for 24 hours, then you're like, oh my goodness, I have to play tennis, I have to go in every pool, I have to go to the spa, I have to sit in the sauna, I have to go to the beaches, I have to sit in the built-in, beautiful um private movie theater.
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And that in itself became stressful because you want to also, you know, explore all of that as well.
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So sometimes it was a little bit of pressure, like to fit it all in in 24 hours, but no, I'm more of a you know, grassroots backpacker.
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I like normal life.
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I don't, you know, this is not normal life, a luxury hotel.
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Okay.
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You know, I have it would be nice to experience it.
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I would because uh whenever I traveled, it was always on well, my own business.
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I I don't have a lot of money to spend, so it's gotta use it wisely.
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But when I was working in the J O Bs like you, uh it's you know, you're on the expense, and it's like I remember where was I?
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I was on a uh a business trip and I instead of eating at a restaurant, I went to Whole Foods, and at that time Whole Foods had a decent that you could get food.
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And I remember the the time and expense cop kept dinging me about eating at a Whole Foods.
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You can't buy your groceries.
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I said I said, I'm sure you've only ever eaten at a piggly wiggly, okay, which is a grocery train in the southeast.
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And it's like, but you can buy you can buy uh buffet food there, okay?
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So stop bugging me.
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But I don't know.
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Isn't that great?
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Isn't working great?
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I you know, I work gets in the way of fun, I think.
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It really does.
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It really does.
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I mean, I love Yeah, I love podcasting.
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I uh I really do.
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I love to be able to do this anywhere in the world because that's pretty much internet connection.
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And I love coaching.
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I mean I love walking like the the the path behind you is a perfect place to coach clients.
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Go for a nice walk, talk about what they're facing.
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But when there's these constraints, you're pushed put in a box about what you can and cannot do.
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That's where I it's it's stifling.
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It's like I've got to get out of here.
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Yes, oh yes, we could have another podcast just about that.
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Just about that.
00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:12.879
So tell me more about with the book and this travel memoir, and what for you, what was the compelling reason to essentially just light the fire to create this memoir and who who's your audience for it?
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Oh, very good question.
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So, first of all, I think it was never a plan to do this.
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What happened is on that trip, which was in 2010, so a long time ago now, when you're with somebody who has a purpose, you know, my partner was meeting um people at hotels, we were meeting tour operators, and I would go along to some of that, but when it's someone else's dream, you know, for a future business, it's very different when you're the tag along.
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And after a few weeks, I got really restless in my head, and I needed something that was mine.
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And so this was 2010, so we didn't have cell phones, there was no constant contact with anybody.
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I started creating these stories in my head about what we were seeing and doing and what I was thinking and feeling and all of the above.
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And then once a week I would send these stories out through emails to friends and family, and then that became my mission.
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That was my sort of project for myself, which kept me excited.
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And, you know, I loved writing and I loved being funny and being creative, so it really helped me have a purpose.
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And then the feedback was very good.
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People would send these emails to their own friends and family.
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So I kind of knew there was something in it, but yeah, it took me many years.
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I was in and out.
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Do I do it?
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Don't I do it?
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But it was always kind of nagging me and you know, behind the scenes.
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And I just knew I had to had to decide.
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And I sent it to a friend who was an editor and said, You tell me the truth.
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Is it good?
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Is it bad?
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And he said, No, you've got to do it.
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It's uh it's it's gotta be out there.
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And so there you go.
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That's how it happened.
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Okay.
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And who is your audience for the book and what why should of course we need to have it?
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I know you I need to have a copy of it and as prep work before I uh head to Southeast Asia, but who is your audience for the book?
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Well, that's a really interesting question because I think when you write something, you you shouldn't even think who the audience is.
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I think I I thought maybe travel people would like it, but it was more that I was doing it for me, and I think that that was the best route.
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But now that it's out, it's been very interesting because sure, lots of people who like to travel have read it, but it's also really appealed to people who've never been anywhere because I think it's a really good armchair adventure.
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Okay.
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The way that I write makes people feel like they're right, they're going through it with me, whether they want to do it or not.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.920
And many people have said, Oh my gosh, thank God you did that for me because I am not going to do that.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.519
I think it's really funny and it's just really honest.
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:13.359
And I think it speaks to people not being afraid to talk about their vulnerabilities and where they're at and sharing some of their insecurities.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:24.319
And I think today, more than ever, that that speaks to a lot of people, you know, and maybe it's a way for people to feel inspired to do something that's adventurous to them.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:29.279
It certainly doesn't have to look like what I did, but it's it's about a lot of different things.
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:34.240
So I think it it meets a lot of needs for a lot of different people.
00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:34.960
Okay.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.480
What are some examples of the stories?
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.480
I mean, I there are certain things I am just never gonna do.
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:42.799
Okay.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:46.000
I have a friend just came back with her with her partner.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.920
She's into what I would call extreme angling fishing.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:59.440
I mean, she fishes for wolf fish and piranha and these big massive catfish and arapima that'll swallow you whole.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.079
But that's her bag, and God love her.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.599
I I I'll I'll sit on the water and just kind of watch.
00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:06.000
Okay.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:48.640
But what what would be some of the stories that you'd you would like to share, or at least I hope you would like to share with our listeners about that what you experience being I mean, Southeast Asia here, at least here in America, US, is still foreign to us because not many of us maybe we go to China and Beijing, maybe we go to the big city in uh in Lao Lao uh or Vietnam, but we don't really our comfort zone is something that's familiar to us, but sounds like you've had the opportunity to get off the beaten trail and experience life locally.
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:56.480
What what are some of those uh opportunities you had to experience and that you were able to share in the book?
00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.039
Yeah, there's a lot of those.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:06.079
And I think you know, I was 35 when I did this trip, but even to this day, I don't love cities, to be honest.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.839
I mean, a city is a city, is a city.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:14.319
Some are pretty awesome, but I do always prefer like villages and seeing, you know, real life.
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.880
But here's a couple of stories for you, Howard.
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.440
I don't know if you'll you'll ever want to do this one.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:28.799
So one thing we did was um we were in northern Laos and we went on a four three to four-day jungle trek.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:38.559
And when we signed up for it, the people running it, the operators, they didn't speak the greatest English, which is fine.
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.680
What you know, you can't expect that everywhere you go, certainly.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:44.559
That's uh pretty um, you know, ethnocentric.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:50.160
So, but they did manage to tell us that there would be leeches and there would be bees.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.960
And we thought, well, it can't be that bad.
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.039
I mean, would they um send us on this thing if it was that bad?
00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.680
And as we have been talking about, we'd had a few adult bed.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.640
Beverages when we signed the waiver.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.039
And um lo and behold, it was horrific.
00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.440
It was very, very hot.
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:13.519
They had promised to bring us enough water, which they did not.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:14.400
So it was hot.
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.000
We were dehydrated.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:17.680
And they did not lie.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:22.000
We were attacked constantly by leeches for days and days.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.200
And I'm not just talking about like one or two.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:31.839
They would be swarming the path that we were on, or in the trail wasn't the easiest terrain.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.640
They would be dropping out of the bushes.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.759
They were everywhere.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.960
I remember the guy in front of me because there were about five or six of us from different parts of the world.
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.920
And he stupidly, I will say, was wearing shorts and tennis shoes.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:56.160
And I will never forget the image of just seeing like blood pouring down his calves because he had probably six leeches on him at one time.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:56.799
Okay.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:57.839
Yep.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.519
So there's a good story for you.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:01.279
And then there were bees.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.680
It was like it was insane.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:05.920
So that was um a story.
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:13.759
And then we spent another night in China, in very rural China, in this village.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.880
It's barely a village, where they have these roundhouses.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.640
They're called Toulouse, and they were built.
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:29.839
Yeah, in eight the 1800s, I think, for to protect them against like bandits and famine and whatever was coming their way.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:34.559
And there are these massive, massive houses, like a roundhouse, exactly as it sound.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:37.039
And there were layers.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:42.000
It was like being in like a like a Colosseum or like an amphitheater or something like that.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:44.160
And so there's no ceiling.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:50.000
It's open, but it's five or six levels of rooms, rickety old rooms.
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:58.319
And some uh uh they're called the Hacka community, and they still live like this to this day, although there's less and less participating in this.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:07.200
The young people are not that that interested, but we paid like 50 cents to go and stay there, and it was a little bit terrifying.
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:18.079
So you had like a padlock, there was a light bulb, there was like a bucket for your business, and some like planks and sh dirty blankets and whatever.
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:19.759
But it was very interesting.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:25.359
I mean, we got to tour around various houses like this, but it was something I would not repeat.
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.559
And I'm glad I did it.
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.680
But looking back, I'm like, what are we doing?
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:30.480
Okay.
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:34.720
You know, I think I'm gonna have to just settle for reading the book on this.
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:36.720
Yes, you'll be thrilled.
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:42.319
Yes, you're gonna you're gonna be very thrilled that you're in your comfy bed when you read those chapters.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.240
Thank you very much for that.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:56.160
What did you find special on this experience as you were gathering stories and just kind of you know, meeting people, having these experiences?
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.440
What did you find about the people that you were meeting?
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:05.440
Because I and I think I was listening on one of the podcasts that you had been on.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:07.119
I mean, you you have blonde hair.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.720
Me, I don't have hair.
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:15.680
So maybe they've seen some bald guy, but what was it like meeting folks who they're not in the city?
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:21.039
Okay, they they you know it's they're they're out in the in the rural areas of the country.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.519
Um, you definitely are look out of place.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:25.119
I know I would look out of place.
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:27.680
What was it like meeting the locals though?
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:32.319
And what was their reaction to you and how did you perceive them?
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:34.720
It depends where you are.
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:45.440
Excuse me, sorry, it depends where you are because some of these countries are are very well versed in tourists and in the big cities, especially in Vietnam and in Thailand.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:54.559
But there are certainly parts of Thailand where you know we were in we got lost one day, and I don't think they'd ever seen a traveler around there.
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.279
So yeah, we certainly stuck out.
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:05.680
My partner was also very fair and blonde, and and but when you're with a man that's helpful.
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:07.920
But I don't know.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:14.640
I think for the most part, there's a curiosity for sure, and there's an interest.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:23.359
But I would say when you ask me this question, the situation that jumped out to me the most was being in a ch in a Chinese train station.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:38.319
So we sometimes like in China, we were in a few big cities, obviously Shanghai and Beijing, and then some smaller cities and a small city there is considered a million, and it's like, you know, still very busy.
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.240
But then we went off into some very, very rural rural areas.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.559
And I would say those are my biggest memories of feeling like we were different.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:27:11.200
And I remember one night we were in a train station and it was very rural, and I had to use the bathroom, and I came back to find my partner just surrounded by local men who were pulling at his armhair and like, you know, looking at his nose, and just they were in awe of how different he looked to them.
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:19.039
No one and the other thing that happened, and and this was in China too, was we were on a train and we got separated.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.279
We got on very early, like four in the morning or something like that, and we were not in the same cabin.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:34.400
And when you're on a chain, a train there, you're often it's like you're with everybody, so that you're in bunk beds with God knows who.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:50.799
And we got in there quite, it was quite dark, and then we were separated, and I woke up, and when all the lights start going on at like 6, 6:30 in the morning, and the train starts waking up, and they discovered that there's this like white woman amongst them.
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.559
It was wild.
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:59.440
I mean, I had all these families were like climbing into my bunk bed with me, trying to get my picture.
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:04.000
They were trying to sing to me, they wanted to just interact with me.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.759
So China was really the place where we noticed it the most.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:13.680
And everywhere we went, people wanted to take our pictures, and we sometimes we were disgusting.
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:21.680
We'd been traveling without showers for like a day and a half and hadn't brushed our teeth, and like it was not pleasant.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:27.519
And you have just people all over you, like wanting to touch you, take your picture, talk to you.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:31.920
So that was China was the place where we experienced it the most, I would say.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:32.559
Okay.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.599
I am very much a uh uh a foodie.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:29:00.400
I I I well, just given the nature of your travel, I just there's probably some guardrails on what I will eat or not eat, but are there some foods that you have eaten, fruits or vegetables, uh, a protein that just continue to bring back positive memories for you, or maybe memories that you'd like you just as soon forget?
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:04.799
Well, there's some amazing fruit in that part of the world.
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:12.880
So Mangosteen was the one that I discovered, and you can get that here in Toronto and some of our you know Asian grocery stores.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.559
But that uh that was, I don't know if you're familiar with it.
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:23.279
It looks purple, like and you peel it, and then inside it's white, and it's just like, oh my goodness, it's so good.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.400
But there are other things that are really gross, like durian.
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:27.519
I don't know if you've heard of that.
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:35.279
It's banned in some places because it smells so bad, but that's like a fruit that some people love and most people don't.
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.279
But the food there is exactly as you can imagine.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.279
It is delicious.
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:53.839
And you'll be, you know, even in Bangkok in Thailand, in the daytime, you it can be like a normal street, and as soon as it's like four or five o'clock, it all of a sudden becomes a restaurant.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:04.480
You know, there's assorted like tables and chairs and tablecloths, and there's just food coming out everywhere, and it's cheap, and it's so, so good.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:08.160
I mean, we have a lot of restaurants in Toronto.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:14.640
We're very, very lucky here, but it will never ever be like street food in those countries.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:24.240
Even on when you're on a bus, and the buses will often, if you're in rural areas and it's a long haul, they're gonna stop for a bit so that everyone can eat.
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:32.319
And um and just like, yeah, these places on the side of the road where you're eating like delicious soup, noodle soups.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:40.480
Um, they are it is just like simple food and it's delicious, and it just feels like you're eating the sun, you know.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.000
There's a few things though.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:47.759
Like I didn't love the food in China, it was very difficult for me um to get through that.
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:56.240
And we went to a water market in Vietnam where some sort of very odd sandwich was given to me that I do not want to think about.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.440
I don't know what that meat was, but I have a sneaking suspicion.
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:00.880
Tastes like chicken.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:01.440
Okay.
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:14.720
Not even as you came back and the book was curated, crafted for you.
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:25.119
How have you continued your travel uh adventures and and kind of keep feeding this bud to get out there and explore?
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:30.960
So, like you, when I came back, I I I started a travel show.
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:44.480
So I started a radio show that morphed into a podcast because when I came back, I had no money, I had no idea what to do with my life, and so that was how I traveled for several years, meeting like-minded people and learning about the world.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:50.640
And then as life kind of figured itself out, it's just something that uh I have to do.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.640
And right now I haven't been away for a long time and I feel it.
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:57.920
I don't feel very something is missing for sure.
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:00.720
But I've been very lucky in 2023.
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.079
I took a year off and I did like lots of trips anywhere.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.480
Some of the trips were two weeks, some of them were eight.
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:08.880
So I did a variety of trips throughout the whole year.
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:12.319
Every year I do something, at least a couple of trips.
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:20.079
So I just figure out a way to fit it into my life, and I think it adventure is really, really important.
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.000
But I also think you have to know what speaks to you.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.119
Like the type of travel I do now has changed a lot.
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:32.480
It's mainly active, like hiking, cycling, paddling, those types of things.
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.640
And that has become my priority.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:45.519
But yeah, I I just think that if it's in you, you have to do it, otherwise, your chemistry is like something's something's not right.
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:50.000
You know, you can feel that you need an adventure, and that's kind of where I'm at at the moment.
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:50.799
Sure.
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:56.160
Now, as you are embarking on these adventures, are you continuing your writing?
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:03.359
You know what's interesting is I think that the internet has changed that for me.
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:11.440
I am writing a second book as we speak, and I'm relying a lot on Instagram posts that I did to jog my memory.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:11.920
Okay.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:19.839
But I think that because we're so frequently in touch with people all the time, and back in 2010, you know, you weren't.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:26.880
So there was a that was part of the adventure, part of the fun, part of the allure is like really having a separation.
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:47.519
And I find now when you're away, I mean, I was in um South America for six weeks in 2023, and you know, maybe there was a few days here and there where I wasn't in touch with people, but now because it's so easy, I think you you can post things and get things out of your system that before we couldn't.
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:53.200
So I don't keep the same kind of notes and I'm sad about that, but I I do have a great memory.
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:57.039
But yeah, no, I'm not um I've never done what I did since.
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:59.680
It like that was an uh an anomaly, I guess.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.079
How I how I approached that trip.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:02.799
Okay.
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:11.760
Well, my uh it's funny as you were just sharing some of this, it it brought back a conversation or virtual a text conversation I was having yesterday.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:17.679
My older sister that I alluded to earlier, she's Belgian from from Antwerp.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.679
And Jenny and then a couple of friends of ours who are also Belgian went to Chile.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:39.599
And so Jenny was asking yesterday, there's an island as you're I don't know, it's a couple days trip from Santiago called Chillaway Island, where you have these houses on stilts and they're colored houses, and their most wonderful coffee shop and bakery were there.
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:44.480
And it's just like and it's brought back that memory, like, oh, I would love to go back there.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.559
And as you were chatting about just 2023, you know, heading you know, getting down there and just enjoying yourself, it's like, oh, I need to do that.
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:57.280
Yeah, me too.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:17.360
Too is there a is there besides the the your your travel partner when you were uh in Southeast Asia, are there folks that you have met along the law along the way, or perhaps most recently, that like are new friends, new people in your life?
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:18.800
Always.
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:28.239
I was in Colombia uh last year for over three weeks, and I was traveling with uh a company, a group it was a group trip.
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:35.599
It was an adventure travel trip, and we also did like a jungle hike, which I don't know why I did another one because I still don't like jungle hikes.
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:37.920
But those leeches, I keep getting them away.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.119
I know.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:40.000
Always.
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:49.840
I think traveling, you are open to some really interesting magical connections with people that you don't really have at home.
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:59.280
I think you know, people understand you in ways that maybe people in your home life do not, and you start from a different playing field.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:04.800
So there are always people that come into my life on a trip that I wasn't expecting.
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:08.719
And I think it's also because, you know, we're open to it.
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:13.039
We that's part of the joy of travel, is you have no idea who's coming your way.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:26.960
It could be a local, it could be a fellow traveler, but yeah, there's always these amazing, beautiful connections with people that you often feel you've known forever or in a different life, or and you do things with them.
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:34.639
I mean, I've hiked active volcanoes with people and as I said, done jungle treks and horse trips and whatever.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.599
And these are like pretty monumental experiences.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.440
You're not just meeting up with someone down the street at Starbucks, you're doing some pretty crazy stuff.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:37:01.360
And I also think that traveling is often you're putting your life into the hands of strangers every day, and to share that kind of exhilarating, you know, risk with a group of strangers that have your back is is a a really big magical bond.
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:03.199
It's a it's a huge connection, you know.
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:07.760
And some of them teach you life lessons, and some of them can be really annoying.
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.719
It's not like you fall in love with everyone you meet, but it's just really interesting who comes along.
00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:13.360
Okay.
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:32.880
In addition to your book, The People You Meet, if you were to come across some young kids, doesn't matter if it's a young lady, a gentleman, what advice would you give them if they really haven't explored too far out of their region?
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:42.639
You know, that you're in the Ontario and uh some people will never leave Ontario, some people will never leave Michigan where I grew up.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:55.199
But what advice would you give them for embarking on a journey, kind of like the one you've taken, might maybe not to have all the experiences, but get out of your comfort zone a little bit.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:56.960
What what advice would you give them?
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:06.960
I think that, you know, it's travel's a really important thing to do at any age, and I th I do love that young people did it.
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:15.840
I did it when I was young, but I don't think this is the answer you're gonna be looking for because to be honest, I my first big trip was when I was 19.
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.519
I went to Europe by myself and I did it terribly wrong.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.159
I had no idea what I was doing.
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:33.360
And so I think that sometimes, you know, we tell young people to go and do these things, but you have to want to do it, you have to be ready to do it, and you have to be open to it.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:40.800
And so I would really suggest as a young person that they their first trip they do with a company.
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:48.159
Like I know there's a company in Toronto called G Adventures, and they they have trips for like 18 to 30 somethings.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:59.119
And if I was 18 or 20, I think I would could have benefited from that because you kind of learn how to travel at a young age instead of and it's changed now.
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:00.880
In my day, there was no internet.
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:08.000
You were following maps and books that were outdated and guessing and just hoping to god you'd land in the right place.
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:10.159
So obviously that's changed now.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.800
There's a million apps, you'll never get lost.
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.559
There's even ways to meet people before you even get to a hostel.
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:20.480
But if I was a young person, I would do one of those organized trips.
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:23.840
And they're not, it's not like you're on a bus with 30 people.
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:34.000
These are still very authentic, independent sort of trips where you are seeing like what it's like to be a backpacker and you're kind of learning how to do it.
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:42.719
I would do one of those first and see if you even like it and get your feet wet and you there's like someone kind of there for you if you need them.
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.960
And that that will either give you the bug or it won't.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.719
But it's it's a very good way to embrace yourself into this.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:59.920
You're with other people your age, you're gonna do some amazing, incredible adventures, you're gonna learn about yourself, but you're also gonna learn how to do this.
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.199
And I think that that's a really good way to get your feet wet if you're young.
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.199
I wish I had done something like that.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.199
That's what I discovered in my late 20s, and I was hooked.
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:18.800
And so I think that yeah, that it's you're you're not ever gonna be super lonely because travel can be very lonely.
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:27.519
And if you if you realize that of your young age that it's not all a bed of roses, it can also dissuade you, you know.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.920
So I would personally go try it that way first.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:32.960
That's my advice.
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:34.880
Perfect advice.
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:35.920
I I I love it.
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:40.000
It it will resonate for some and others, it's like whatever.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:41.039
Yeah, totally.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:46.800
But I I in some ways I I I actually do have it res resonate for me.
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:54.400
When I lived in the UK for a little while, I went over there thinking I literally did not know everything.
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:56.400
Let me just get that out of the way first.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.840
But I went there thinking, I'm an American, I know everything.
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:18.320
And I explored a lot, was on my own a lot, but I could have been more tuned into the people and the experience and listening and to and getting to know the people as opposed to, well, I'm not doing that, that's stupid.
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:19.280
Yeah.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:19.679
Yeah.
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:27.440
And I I think you you kind of need to take a deep breath and put your ego behind you, especially when you're in another country.
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:29.360
Oh, a million percent.
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.000
And the other thing is that it's a lot of work.
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:35.920
Travel is not um it's not all footloose and fancy-free.
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:39.519
And you have to constantly, you know, where am I sleeping tonight?
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:40.800
Where am I going tomorrow?
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:44.239
Like it's not uh it's not a walk in the park.
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:57.440
So I think if you're young, it's good to kind of the first time out just take it all in, see what it's like, learn about it, see like you'll see the patterns of like how trips are organized, and then you can decide.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:58.559
I love it.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:06.559
Melissa, if our listeners would like to learn more about you and your journey and your work, where are the best places to go?
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:11.360
The best place is uh Instagram, Fly Travel Media.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:12.800
You're gonna list that, I know.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.039
And my website is also a good one, flyaradway.com.
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:18.239
Excellent, excellent.
00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.760
Now we'll provide backlinks uh in in our show notes.
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:29.360
Also, if there are some photos that you could share with us so we can put them up on our show notes, we would be really appreciative of that.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:31.440
And it's been a pleasure to get to know you.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.440
And I promise before I go Southeast Asia, I'm gonna have to read the book.
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:39.360
But uh I'm definitely if there's leeches, I'm definitely not gonna be there.
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:43.599
I I've gotten too old and I'm not into those kinds of experiences anymore.
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.719
But uh me neither.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:45.679
I'm over it too.
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:46.800
Well, thank you, Howard.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:48.320
It's been a pleasure.
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:49.440
Listen, stay in a line.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.400
We're gonna do a quick close, and you and I can have a final chat, okay?
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:53.360
Thank you.
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:54.960
All right, folks.
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:59.599
What a pleasant uh way to uh end the week here on a Friday.
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:03.280
Um here in Las Vegas, and Melissa is in Toronto.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:05.039
I'm kind of warm right now.
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:09.199
I well, Melissa likes the cold weather, and so Toronto's my favorite city.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.519
One of my favorite cities, let me just say that.
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:21.440
But really uh being able to meet Melissa, hearing her story, and just chatting about this her love of travel and the experiences that she's had.
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:28.239
Do go out and and check her book, their travel memoir, The People You Meet, Luxury, Leeches.
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:29.679
I don't think about that.
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:38.000
Love and Lao Lau with a host of interesting characters in Southeast Asia, and really again appreciated hearing those stories.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:47.280
We're gonna provide backlinks to her website uh and to her Instagram page so you can kind of check out more information about her and the book.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:53.679
Okay, folks, remember you can find this episode up on our website, outdoor adventures.com.
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:58.639
You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn on our outdoor adventure series pages.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:00.960
The episode will also Be up on YouTube.
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.199
And of course, you can listen to this episode along with reading the book, uh, wherever you get your podcast from.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:14.000
So plan the book and the podcast listening, and uh, we're sure you are definitely going to enjoy it.
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:24.880
So, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, go out there and have a fantastic weekend, and we look forward to having you join us on a future episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series podcast.
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:25.920
Take care.
