Exploring Desert Art Program Innovation at the Goldwell Open Air Museum

# Goldwell Open Air Museum II

[00:00:06] **Nichole Hanson:** [00:00:00] Hello , everybody. This is Howard Fox, and welcome back for another episode of the Outdoor Adventure series, and I am back here at the Goldwell Open Air Museum. which is I would say four or five miles west of Beatty, Nevada.

[00:00:20] **Howard Fox:** What a history. And I, I was up here today. I had the pleasure of interviewing, my friend, Steve Dudro. He is, with the Art Box, Podcast, and he is a, resident artist and, on the art board in, Mesquite, Nevada. And as I was up here interviewing Steve, we had the chance to also, include,one of the other, local artists-

I had the chance to, interview, Patrick, as well. 

So this has been full of art and creativity and history. Now today, it's the afternoon. I'm back here at the Goldwell Open Air Museum, and I have the [00:01:00] pleasure of introducing to you, Zoe Camper. She is a board member here at the museum. She is also a very accomplished artist. And I also have, Nicole Hanson.

She is on the board as well. So, Zoe, Nicole, thank you for joining me on the podcast. 

[00:01:17] **Zoë Camper:** Oh, pleasure. Thank 

[00:01:18] **Howard Fox:** you. Fantastic. So first off, It's hot out here. You bet. And, it, and so, and, and I, and I noticed, Zoe, you're, you're not from around here. How have you been acclimating to the weather, this, this wonderful desert weather?

[00:01:32] **Zoë Camper:** It's, it's hot. 

[00:01:33] **Howard Fox:** It's hot. 

[00:01:33] **Zoë Camper:** It's dry heat though, I'm told, so I can't complain- Right ... because it's not, humidified, shall we say. 

[00:01:39] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:01:39] **Zoë Camper:** So I r- I was out running one day, and I went past a casino, and the security guard just shouted at me, "It's dry heat And it's... I'm sweating like anything. it's different to London, I'll say that.

Mm. But I wouldn't be anywhere else. 

[00:01:52] **Howard Fox:** Lovely. Now how long have you been here in the US, 

[00:01:56] **Zoë Camper:** coming up for... It's about nine, 10 years. [00:02:00] Okay. my husband's in the gaming industry, which is what actually brought us here. 

[00:02:03] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:02:04] **Zoë Camper:** And a love of Las Vegas- 

[00:02:05] **Howard Fox:** Okay ... 

[00:02:06] **Zoë Camper:** actually set us on our journey, to Vegas, not necessarily Beatty.

[00:02:12] **Howard Fox:** Beatty. 

[00:02:12] **Zoë Camper:** Beatty. I can't do it. Beatty. You 

[00:02:14] **Howard Fox:** can't 

[00:02:14] **Zoë Camper:** do it. Somebody said it's like Warren Beatty. 

[00:02:17] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. 

[00:02:17] **Zoë Camper:** Warren, Beatty, and I said, "No. What? Warren Beatty?" It just won't come out. 

[00:02:21] **Howard Fox:** I have to share this. when I'm not podcasting, my day job is I am a coach , and certain, of our coaching responsibilities is to take exams periodically, and I had to do an assessment, this exam, and I finished it yesterday.

And what I noticed from the, the lessons is they were all using the I-S-Es, whereas we end some of our words with I-Z-Es. 

[00:02:46] **Zoë Camper:** Correct. 

[00:02:46] **Howard Fox:** And it's like I could tell where the exam was made. So I, I get it. Yes. When you say Beatty, Beatty, I get it. Yeah. And,hopefully w- when you're here 12, 15 years, it'll be just like clockwork.

[00:02:59] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. We'll, yeah. [00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] **Howard Fox:** We'll work. 

[00:03:00] **Zoë Camper:** We'll, we'll see. 

[00:03:01] **Howard Fox:** We'll see. Now h- how long have you been here in, in Beatty, or are you still... Is Las Vegas still your home? 

[00:03:08] **Zoë Camper:** Las Vegas is home. 

[00:03:09] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:03:09] **Zoë Camper:** but we come up as often as we can. 

[00:03:11] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:03:12] **Zoë Camper:** we started doing guided walks, and we've started looking at, what we can- do with the museum, so it's essential that we're here.

[00:03:19] **Howard Fox:** Right. 

[00:03:20] **Zoë Camper:** And, it's just a great place to come out and forget about things, so. 

[00:03:24] **Howard Fox:** Oh, I, I, I love it. It... I was just sharing with, the guys earlier is I came out here when I did my first dark sky photography- Mm-hmm ... shoot, and I love coming back here. And it's like, hey, you're in Vegas. Take a day, go up to Beatty, Rhyolite, have some fun.

[00:03:42] **Nichole Hanson:** Now- It's really not that far away from the 

[00:03:44] **Howard Fox:** city. It's not. Mm-hmm. It's not. So Nicole, tell us a little bit about yourself. How long have you... Are you a, a Beatty native, or are you- I am not ... from elsewhere? 

[00:03:53] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah, I'm not from Beatty. So I'm from originally- You 

[00:03:55] **Howard Fox:** said Beatty too. 

[00:03:57] **Nichole Hanson:** Beatty. 

[00:03:57] **Howard Fox:** Beatty, Beatty. 

[00:03:58] **Nichole Hanson:** Oh my gosh, this is gonna be like [00:04:00] back and forth all day.

I'm actually from Salt Lake City, Utah. 

[00:04:03] **Howard Fox:** Ah. 

[00:04:04] **Nichole Hanson:** So not too far away, about six hours north of here. and I moved to Las Vegas about 16 years ago, so I've been out here for a while, and my first experience with Goldwell was around 1994, and I had no idea it was even called Goldwell. I just came out to see the ghosties and, had no idea.

[00:04:25] **Howard Fox:** The ghosties. so, okay. Yeah. So now that you've kinda let the,cat out of the bag, so to speak, what are the ghosties? 

[00:04:32] **Nichole Hanson:** Well. 

[00:04:32] **Howard Fox:** Are you allowed to say that since you're on the board? 

[00:04:35] **Nichole Hanson:** I am the newest member of the board. 

[00:04:37] **Howard Fox:** Okay. Oh, 

[00:04:38] **Nichole Hanson:** wow. So I will say I'm not as seasoned as Michelle or Zoe or Patrick. so I'm allowed some slippage because I'm still learning, so.

Okay. Yeah. But I'll, I'll let Zoe explain because she has all of that in her brain. The ghosties. 

[00:04:52] **Zoë Camper:** The ghosties. Yes, 

[00:04:54] **Nichole Hanson:** the ghosties. 

[00:04:54] **Howard Fox:** Okay. But before we have, Zoe explain, when you came out here, what- [00:05:00] When you came out to Beatty and y- you saw the Ghosties, what led you to want to be a part of the board of the Goldwell Museum?

[00:05:09] **Nichole Hanson:** So I was approached by Miss Zoe here, about a year ago, almost exactly in M- March, I would say. and she had told me that she had been a part of this board. I can't even remember how this conversation came up. 

[00:05:24] **Zoë Camper:** I'm not exactly sure, but I thought you're not getting away- 

[00:05:28] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah ... 

[00:05:28] **Zoë Camper:** whatever was happening.

You didn't stand back quickly enough. 

[00:05:31] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah. 

[00:05:31] **Zoë Camper:** And so I just thought, she's such a fantastic person, and so, Michelle met, and we got along, and it just felt right, and met Patrick and- 

[00:05:42] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah ... 

[00:05:43] **Zoë Camper:** it just felt like a great fit. And obviously, you've got tons of skills that we don't have as well, so... 

[00:05:49] **Nichole Hanson:** It, it was a really enchanting first visit.

we came out here, and it was just like, it was great to meet with Michelle and Zoe, and they opened my eyes to [00:06:00] how much bigger this area is with the history and all of the other art pieces, So it is famous for the Ghosties or the ghost, but there's so much more to Goldwell and, and the overall, area and Beatty, and it's just, it's been fantastic to get like deeper and deeper into the different levels of this area.

[00:06:19] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:06:20] **Nichole Hanson:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:20] **Howard Fox:** Okay. So, so Zoe, when you are here and spending time, and you alluded a, a few minutes ago to hosting tours. So what is it... What are some of the programming that you're, intimately involved in here to promote and really kind of ex- share the experience of what it means to come- 

[00:06:42] **Zoë Camper:** Sure

[00:06:43] **Howard Fox:** to the museum? 

[00:06:44] **Zoë Camper:** I think one of the most important things is that we didn't just turn up from Vegas- And do things. We've spent a lot of time listening, getting to know, Patrick and Richard and, the, the folk of Beatty, Beatty, [00:07:00] Beatty. I can't do it. and- 

[00:07:01] **Howard Fox:** Zoe, you do you. 

[00:07:02] **Zoë Camper:** Oh, thank you. I can do that.

and so we didn't rush into anything. So gradually what we've been doing is looking at, at the educational side of things. So I'm a City of London guide. 

[00:07:15] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:15] **Zoë Camper:** I trained for a year. I've got a what's called a green badge in- Oh, yeah ... guided walking in the 2,000 years of London. 

[00:07:23] **Howard Fox:** Oh, yeah. 

[00:07:24] **Zoë Camper:** but I can only guide in the square mile.

Okay. But in that square mile is 2,000 years. 

[00:07:28] **Howard Fox:** Sure. 

[00:07:29] **Zoë Camper:** So I brought that kind of love of telling people about things and trying to explain things to the sort of the modern era, the last 100 and whatever years, forgetting or not including, because I don't know enough about the last 15,000- Sure ... but I'm working on that.

[00:07:47] **Nichole Hanson:** Okay. 

[00:07:47] **Zoë Camper:** So the idea of actually creating something that would draw people here, whilst also trying to explain why the artwork is here, which isn't always straightforward- Mm-hmm ... has been a lot of fun. We've also [00:08:00] just set up our inaugural artist's wall. 

[00:08:02] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:03] **Zoë Camper:** Which means that we have now a regular art program.

[00:08:06] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:08:06] **Zoë Camper:** So, part of our, articles of association are about helping artists, and also an artist residency program, which is gonna take time. Mm-hmm. But that's what we've been, trying to set up, among many other things. And just being here as well. and Patrick's here. The visitor center's open six days a week.

[00:08:27] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. 

[00:08:27] **Zoë Camper:** And that's just phenomenal. I think that's one of the best things that could have happened, actually. 

[00:08:32] **Howard Fox:** Fantastic. I, I know when I, I was here earlier, this morning, there was, I think Patrick was saying there was folks here from France and the UK. 

[00:08:40] **Zoë Camper:** Yep. 

[00:08:41] **Howard Fox:** And it's... I mean, that's wonderful when folks make a point of coming out here.

I mean, they wanna perhaps go to Death Valley. I mean, why not? It's eight miles down the road. Mm. And, and I think they discover Beatty and- Also, they discover, wait a minute, there's this ghost town- Yep ... and there's this museum [00:09:00] nearby, and then they tell their friends and family, and they tell their friends and family.

Mm-hmm. And you, you all of a sudden have this international following. 

[00:09:08] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. My first trip, I think, was 2009. Not my first trip to Vegas, which was the end of 2001. Mm-hmm. And we came because of Rhyolite. 

[00:09:17] **Howard Fox:** Right. 

[00:09:18] **Zoë Camper:** But the minute we saw, the, the Pink Lady, as we, colloquially can't say it, call her, it's not a name, I was, I was, "What on earth is this?"

So I knew about this place before I moved here. 

[00:09:30] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:09:30] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. 

[00:09:31] **Howard Fox:** Fantastic. I, I literally did not even know about the place. I mean, I knew, I knew of a... in Nevada there were ghost towns. I had no idea where they were. and it was, it was through a, at the time there was a meetup group for dark sky photography, and we went to Mojave National Preserve, like, I think within a couple weeks of moving to Las Vegas.

And then, oh, we're going up to Rhyolite, and, the rest, as they say, is history. Mm-hmm. Is, staying at the [00:10:00] motel, seeing a burro walk down the street. Yeah, the 

[00:10:03] **Nichole Hanson:** burros. 

[00:10:03] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. And then just experiencing the, this, museum at night was absolutely wonderful. Mm-hmm. And, we did, hear about a snake, but that's a whole other story.

Like, we have to watch out for those. 

[00:10:14] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah. It does say, "Watch out for snakes," on the sign. 

[00:10:16] **Howard Fox:** I did see- Yeah ... the sign. it was not lost on me. so i- it's great programming, for folks of all ages, very educational, and it's... As you're, you're sharing, it's a work in progress. And, I, I guess I would be curious, maybe we'll wait for the, to answer this question about where would you see, where would you like to see this museum, say, in five years or so?

and I'll give you a chance to ch- to think about that- Okay ... before you jump in, 'cause I wanna hear from, Nicole. As you came out here, what is some of the programming you're working on, and how has your experience... 'Cause I know you're in gaming- Mm-hmm ... a- as well, and, as a, charitable giving and, also the, product marketing.

So you have an idea [00:11:00] of how to market- Product, and this is, this museum is a product. 

[00:11:05] **Nichole Hanson:** Yes. so it's been really an interesting learning experience to go from kind of a commercial corporate marketing experience to nonprofit. And, and not only that, but incorporate tourism and travel and, the mission and, So I think a lot of what I've been doing in this first year is, is basically learning about the best way that you could brand or market an area like Goldwell. And, one of the things that we've been focused on this year is, just even differentiating Goldwell from Rhyolite. Mm-hmm. So they are two different areas.

Mm-hmm. and Goldwell is a parcel of land, that is right outside of Rhyolite, but it's, it's- It's its own place. It's its own experience. And so, we've been working on signage and,kind of really branding Goldwell to, to identify itself, uniquely. it is part of the whole [00:12:00] area.

like, if you visit Goldwell, you're definitely gonna visit Rhyolite, and I think just even looking at how we're doing that story, how we're branding, how we're explaining our mission, and, Zoe, Michelle, Patrick, Richard, everybody's done a really good job of, of taking this story and, and, doing the guided walks and, like, documenting it, and then, also, like, kind of looking forward to, like, what we're gonna do next to continue to brand it and elevate it and, and get it going, and continuing in the future for other people to enjoy.

[00:12:32] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. something dawned on me. You, you just said something about the signage. The... As you dr- drove in from Beatty, you're on the road to Death Valley. There, And I knew the road to turn right because there was a big billboard on the side, on the side of the road. Mm-hmm. But as I made that right-hand turn, I noticed there were two signs that I don't recall seeing.

Are those new? 

[00:12:58] **Zoë Camper:** Yes. [00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:13:00] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. They're, they're, Michelle worked hard on a grant from Travel Nevada. 

[00:13:04] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:13:05] **Zoë Camper:** so that was a grant that we are literally just finishing off now, which enabled us to get new signage, and particularly something on the roadside, so that people were more aware that, that there's Goldwell and there's Rhyolite, but even that there's Goldwell.

[00:13:19] **Nichole Hanson:** Right. 

[00:13:20] **Zoë Camper:** But one of the funniest things, we got the new sign all looking great, and then I think Patrick sent a picture of a burrow scratching its backside- ... on, on the sign, and it's just like the chances of the sign being taken out by a burrow are, are low- Zero ... but never zero. 

[00:13:39] **Howard Fox:** Wow. It 

[00:13:39] **Zoë Camper:** just made me laugh.

[00:13:41] **Howard Fox:** All right. So I, I have a favor. would you please ask, Patrick for a copy of that photo? Because we'll include that in the show notes. Oh, it's brilliant. I, I- Yeah ... think it's wonderful. I literally, as I was making the right-hand turn, I saw the sign. I almost just kept going, and then I thought to myself, "I have to turn around, make [00:14:00] sure..."

Because the sun was fine this morning. It was being lit. the signs were being lit by the sun. They weren't, obscured by the, the glare. And so I turned around, went back, stopped the car, got out of it- Took some photos and got back in, then turned around again and came up to the museum. Nice. So, I, I...

Okay. So I, even in my old age, I, I have a, a- You're not... Yeah, 

[00:14:23] **Zoë Camper:** you were, were out ... 

[00:14:24] **Howard Fox:** attention to detail. I knew I, I had haven't seen those before. That's wonderful. So a question I was gonna ask, earlier is, you've been here for a while. You're, you're both very involved in the museum. One rather new, but where would you like to see, say, 10 years from now?

What would, what will... you can have successes every day, every month, every year, but 10 years from now, what would you like to see and share with the community or visitors coming here to visit this museum? 

[00:14:57] **Zoë Camper:** I think the biggest thing [00:15:00] is that everything is still here- Okay ... in 10 years. 

[00:15:03] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:15:03] **Zoë Camper:** we are working, with a company who are doing some pro bono work for us on surveying, not just the sculptures, but the landscape.

[00:15:12] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:12] **Zoë Camper:** So what, how much precipitation is coming from the mountain, where it goes, how it's undercutting sculptures. Okay. I just wanna know that they're here. 

[00:15:22] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:15:22] **Zoë Camper:** That's my top goal, and I think I would say that we're all on board with that. Okay. So it's one of the most harshest environments. When it rains, it's, it's dangerous.

[00:15:36] **Howard Fox:** It's dangerous, 

[00:15:37] **Zoë Camper:** yes. Yeah. So that's our constant, both incredible environment, but equally our kind of enemy. So to work with that is the major goal, and to raise enough money to make sure, that as... I think it was some of the words that Albert Szukalski, the founding sculptor, said, to our recently retired president, Susan Hackett [00:16:00] Morgan, "Keep it going."

As you go out, you'll see Michelle's sculpture that says, "Keep going." 

[00:16:05] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:05] **Zoë Camper:** I think that's a mantra that we've all, begun to understand. So whilst I want to say the most phenomenal community arts center, and close connections with the school, and people in, in Bailey thinking this is theirs, and that they love it and will cherish it, what I want to say is that everything is safe and here in 40 years' time.

[00:16:34] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. 

[00:16:35] **Zoë Camper:** That's, I think that's where we're all at. 

[00:16:37] **Howard Fox:** Okay. Excellent. Nicole, as far as programming, by the way, I have a, I have a, a, a request that the out the porch outside- 

[00:16:46] **Nichole Hanson:** Mm-hmm ... 

[00:16:47] **Howard Fox:** pro- the product, product marketing, that porch is phenomenal with the cross breeze. I can imagine it's about four times, five times the size with a whole bunch of chairs- 

[00:16:58] **Nichole Hanson:** Oh, yeah

[00:16:58] **Howard Fox:** just lounging 

[00:16:59] **Nichole Hanson:** on. we were just [00:17:00] talking about that. That, that is one of my visions is that I think eventually we have a, a communal area with a lot of shade where people can

come and sit and enjoy and yeah. So I, I'm with you on that. I, I'm sold for that. 

[00:17:14] **Howard Fox:** Okay. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Excellent. So q- question,that I'd love to ask is, as you come into the, the, into the, visitor center, I mean, it, there's a, it, it's c- it's small, okay? But there's a lot going on, a lot of photos, a lot of artwork, a lot of Patrick's art.

there's a lot of the history, and you've got some nice merch. By the way, the,one of the T-shirts, I think it's a 2XL, I will try that on before I leave. I might need to request a 3XL. By the way, I don't think the T-shirts were here when I was here last. Those, those I think are new as well, but- 

[00:17:48] **Zoë Camper:** They just might not have been in stock.

[00:17:50] **Howard Fox:** Maybe that was it. '

[00:17:51] **Zoë Camper:** Cause I think we've been doing T-shirts for a while. 

[00:17:53] **Howard Fox:** Because that is... I love that, that T-shirt, so very cool. the visitors that come in, w- what are [00:18:00] you hearing from them when they come and visit the, the museum? 

[00:18:05] **Zoë Camper:** I think from, listening to Patrick, listening, to Michelle as well, they're, they're kind of a little surprised, and they're not sure what's going on.

The big draw are the ghosties. Mm-hmm. The original, art piece, The Last Supper- 

[00:18:19] **Nichole Hanson:** Mm-hmm ... 

[00:18:20] **Zoë Camper:** by Albert Szukalski, which has been sitting there for 40 years. 

[00:18:24] **Nichole Hanson:** Mm. 

[00:18:25] **Zoë Camper:** that's what the main draw, I believe, is. It's probably our most famous piece, and the most influential. people enjoy walking around. they love the feel of it because if you just look straight out, you're looking out at the Amargosa Valley.

[00:18:43] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:43] **Zoë Camper:** If you look carefully, you can see the big dune- Mm-hmm ... just in the distance. 

[00:18:47] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:47] **Zoë Camper:** Over the hills, you're looking into California. 

[00:18:50] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:50] **Zoë Camper:** It has a sense to it of being quite otherworldly, and then they want to know really about the, the ghost town,1904 [00:19:00] when Shorty Harris found the rock that set, the Goldwell gold rush or Rhyolite gold rush off.

[00:19:06] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:06] **Zoë Camper:** and how that was different to, what was the big one? Virginia City and Gold... What's the town? Goldfield. Goldfield. Goldfield. and then how, how it happened, what, what happened, what were the miners like? 

[00:19:19] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:19] **Zoë Camper:** This is an old mining claim. 

[00:19:21] **Howard Fox:** Sure. 

[00:19:22] **Zoë Camper:** This was, this is two, mining claims put together, and that land was purchased way back actually.

But it is, it was the kind of casual end- Mm-hmm ... of Rhyolite. it's the bullfrog. So, it's all very tied in to that, and it's just kind of explaining a little bit the good stories, the fun stories. So Richard pointed out that if you look straight out and just look to the right, there's a wagon trail- 

[00:19:49] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm

[00:19:49] **Zoë Camper:** that heads off into Death Valley. 

[00:19:51] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:51] **Zoë Camper:** Once you start seeing those places, you can start to weave a story. So creating that story for [00:20:00] visitors is, is what they're interested in and what they enjoy, and then they just love the nuttiness of it. There was a big pink lady. There's, Shorty Harris and the penguin.

What's the penguin doing in the desert? What is going on there? and that's indicative of Fred Bufford's, He would always have some sort of self in his artwork, and the penguin is him. 

[00:20:21] **Howard Fox:** Mm. 

[00:20:22] **Zoë Camper:** And that's how he felt in the desert. There's also other stories associated with that, which I won't go into right now-

which are far more funny. but just what, what is it? What is going on really, I think is the main thing. 

[00:20:34] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. Excellent. Nicole, if you had the chance to be interviewed- a, a, a news station and a, a, a podcast host. I don't know, maybe somebody like me. Who knows? Why should I come to the Goldwell Museum?

[00:20:50] **Nichole Hanson:** Oh my gosh. There, there's so many reasons why you should come here, and I, I think Zoe so eloquently, has said is the just the Amargosa Valley [00:21:00] itself is, is just astonishing. It's so peaceful. And then, yeah, once you get to Goldwell, you realize that we have these priceless pieces of sculpture. they're internationally well-known artists, which that was surprising to me, because at first it was like you kinda think it's just random, but once you come here, you start to realize it's not random.

several of these artists come from the same school in Belgium. 

[00:21:28] **Howard Fox:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:28] **Nichole Hanson:** and there is just, it, it's that interconnection of the valley, the art, the kind of strangeness. I think it is a place you can't forget. So once you come here, you're gonna always feel connected to it. and, yeah, I just think it's a, it's a great spot, and of course you're gonna run into some lovely people that, like Patrick and the, and, and Richard in the visitor center, and they are more than happy to sit and talk to you, and you'll see art happening.

Patrick's usually here with his sketchbook [00:22:00] and paints. And so it's, it's an active live area where art exists and art is happening, and it's so inspirational. so that's what keeps me coming back. we, we've come quite a bit, and it never really gets old. we, we keep talking about how even the town of Beatty and, the, the areas that you can visit in Beatty are always, there's always something new.

Right. There's always a story will happen, whether it's, a, a burrow encounter or Yeah. 

[00:22:27] **Zoë Camper:** We, we had a very funny story today about a naked man in just boots- A naked man ... and a cowboy hat. Which is not suitable for your podcast, so I'm not gonna go into it. But it's a kind of fable. You know there are fables here- 

[00:22:39] **Howard Fox:** I can imagine

[00:22:39] **Zoë Camper:** that you get to hear after you've sat down and chilled out, and then the stories come. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:45] **Howard Fox:** I love it. I love it. Before we head out today, and the... Is there a, as far as the stories, the fables, is, i- is, are there opportunities when you, when you [00:23:00] leave the, the museum, you leave the grounds and you're, you're on the way back home, what are the thoughts going on through your head?

[00:23:08] **Zoë Camper:** that we sat on the porch and looked out at the Amargosa Desert Valley for too long. 

[00:23:13] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. 

[00:23:13] **Zoë Camper:** And we didn't do what we said we were gonna do. 

Rich- Because we got so into the just being here ... 

Richard said that earlier- We forgot ... before he had... He thought, "Oh my God, I think I have gotta go somewhere. I don't remember where, but I'll," Yeah. 

[00:23:25] **Howard Fox:** And I could, I could just see hanging out there all day and not doing a thing. 

[00:23:29] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. So that does happen. 

[00:23:31] **Howard Fox:** Okay. 

[00:23:32] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah. It's a way to clear your mind. 

[00:23:34] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. 

[00:23:34] **Nichole Hanson:** And there's something, I was just telling Zoe about this today, I said, "Time is different out here." I don't know what it is about it, but it, it, it can feel very long, but also very short, and so you're like, "What did I do?"

But it, 

[00:23:45] **Zoë Camper:** it is a- Yeah. We don't know actually what we did, but we've done it. 

[00:23:48] **Nichole Hanson:** Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:48] **Howard Fox:** I love it. Yeah. By the way, I have to share, I am in love with the name the Amargosa Valley. Yeah. The Amargosa River. There's just something about that that like, it just kind of- It's 

[00:23:58] **Zoë Camper:** very 

[00:23:58] **Nichole Hanson:** beautiful. 

[00:23:58] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. Bougie. It kind [00:24:00] of makes you work for it though as well, doesn't it?

[00:24:01] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. 

[00:24:02] **Zoë Camper:** It's not- Yeah ... an easy thing to say. 

[00:24:03] **Howard Fox:** Yeah. A little, yeah, almost like Beatty and Beatty for you. 

[00:24:06] **Zoë Camper:** Yeah. Mm, no. 

[00:24:07] **Howard Fox:** No, okay. So Zoe, if our listeners would like to learn more about y- well, first off, if, about you and your work, 'cause we really didn't talk about your art, but I wanna give them an opportunity in, in our show notes to have a link to go and see some of the great work that you're producing, and really what led you to being here as, on, on the board of the, Goldwell M- Museum.

Where would, where would you like visitors to go? 

[00:24:36] **Zoë Camper:** In what sense? 

[00:24:38] **Howard Fox:** Would you like them to visit your website? 

[00:24:39] **Zoë Camper:** Yes, I would. 

[00:24:40] **Howard Fox:** What w- what would be that URL? 

[00:24:42] **Zoë Camper:** So it's zoecamper.com. So that's Z-O-E- 

[00:24:46] **Howard Fox:** Okay ... 

[00:24:46] **Zoë Camper:** C-A-M-P-E-R. It's not the American with a Y. 

[00:24:49] **Howard Fox:** And it's the E with the umlaut. 

[00:24:50] **Zoë Camper:** It is, which you don't need online. Okay. So just straight up.

[00:24:54] **Howard Fox:** Okay. Fantastic. And w- we will provide, links back, in our show notes to your website and [00:25:00] any- Thank you ... of the social sites, as well. Now, Nicole, I'm not gonna put you on the spot. No. So if our listeners would like to learn more about the Goldwell Open Air Museum, where should they go? 

[00:25:10] **Nichole Hanson:** They should go to goldwellopenairmuseum.org, right?

Goldwellmuseum.org. Okay. Goldwell... Sorry, I always... No, it's that open air museum-

You've only been here a year ... always tricks me. and, and yes, definitely follow our Instagram, and our Facebook page is very active as well, so. 

[00:25:27] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. Well, we will, provide those links, back in our show notes. And, is it okay, do we need to get permission maybe if I pull a couple photos from your Facebook page?

No, I 

[00:25:37] **Zoë Camper:** think you're fine. 

[00:25:38] **Howard Fox:** Okay. Yeah, 'cause, I, I, I know we... It's, it's for the museum, it's not for me, so, but, 

[00:25:44] **Zoë Camper:** Perfectly fine. 

[00:25:45] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. We'd 

[00:25:45] **Zoë Camper:** love you to. 

[00:25:45] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. Yeah. Thank you. I would love to also come back out here and do some more interviews. I think this was fun today. both of you did fantastic. I know a little nervous perhaps.

But- ... you two rocked it. And,I mean, I ca- I can't believe this is probably the first [00:26:00] podcast you've been on. So, Yeah ... if, if it is, well, great. 

[00:26:03] **Nichole Hanson:** That was a really fun conversation. Thank you so 

[00:26:05] **Howard Fox:** much. You're very welcome. 

[00:26:06] **Nichole Hanson:** Yeah, that was brilliant. It was a lot of fun. 

[00:26:07] **Howard Fox:** Excellent. Listen, we're gonna do a real quick close, and then we'll have a final chat, okay?

[00:26:11] **Nichole Hanson:** Okay. 

[00:26:12] **Howard Fox:** All right, folks, we have just been chatting with Zoe Camper and Nicole Hanson, here at the Goldwell Open Air Museum. We... I was hoping to do this outside, but let me just say, even with my little rabbit ear- tail cover for my mic. The wind was blowing like you wouldn't believe, and I, I thought that was gonna be a little too disruptive, but I really, really wanted to do that.

But we're sitting inside the museum, and as I'm chatting with Zoe and Nicole, I'm just noticing all the artwork and the photos. I'm noticing the merch, and, I'm gonna go try on a T-shirt in a second. Now, listen, we're gonna provide all the, links in our show notes to the museum, and they'll be there as pl- as well as,Zoe's website, too.

Now, as for this [00:27:00] episode, you can find us, on our, website outdooradventureseries.com. The episode will also be on our Facebook and LinkedIn pages. And, we're actually gonna make a video of this episode with the photos, which will be up on our YouTube channel. And of course, wherever you get your podcasts from, you can find this episode, on the Outdoor Adventure Series.

So when you're driving to Beatty, you're, yeah, you're on your way to, Death Valley, you're gonna see Beatty, but you're also gonna wanna make a stop, to the Goldwell Museum, here on a piece of land just south of the Rhyolite, ghost town. What a wonderful place, great history, and really, it's, a lot happening here.

And really, some of the great programming is ... Just stay tuned for it and keep checking out the website for what's coming up. Okay, folks, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, go out there and have a fantastic day. And I'm gonna go out and, as the [00:28:00] sun starts to set a little bit, I'm gonna go visit with the ghosties.

and we look forward to having you join us on a future episode of the Outdoor Adventure Series podcast. Take care 

now.